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Croydon asylum cash appeal hinges on size of teen's privates

3:59pm Wednesday 19th November 2008 in


The size of an asylum seeker’s genitals will help determine whether he is entitled to thousands of pounds worth of taxpayers’ money.

The extraordinary revelation came during a High Court row over the age of a teenager who arrived in the UK in the back of a lorry.

Judge Stephen Morris QC heard the youngster – named only as A but under the care of Croydon Council – says he was born in November 1992 and has just turned 16.

However the local authority say he is now 18.

The boy’s age is crucial, because if he is 16 he will be entitled to welfare payments because he is a vulnerable child.

It could also have an impact on how successful his claim for asylum will be.

Launching a judicial review challenge against a Croydon Council ruling that he was 18, lawyers for the legally aided youngster said that medical evidence supports his claim that he is 16.

Judge Morris was told that a doctor who examined A believed there was an 86 percent chance that he was under the age of 17.38, and a 68 percent chance he was under the age of 16.33.

The "very experienced" consultant paediatrician, who made the findings in June this year, said A was "most likely" to be just 14. However they were rejected by Croydon officials in October.

The paediatrician's findings were reached after an examination of A’s private parts, with his height, how deep his voice is and his hairiness also taken into account.

Barrister Christopher Buttler said A - who says he is an orphan - spends much of his time thinking about his late parents and his “fatalistic” attitude was typical of someone in their early teens.

Mr Buttler also rejected arguments that his weight suggested he was 18, observing that he is bigger than average because he can't cook and is reliant on fast food.

Realising the importance of the case, Judge Morris reserved his decision on A's judicial review challenge and did not indicate when he would give it.

Comments(45)

scoffer says...
4:17pm Wed 19 Nov 08

This once great country of ours is reduced to this kind of nonsense - of course, it's become the norm for those who arrive in the backs of lorries and wan't to stay in the land of milk and honey to tell lies - give him a big-mac and send him on his way!!

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Womble says...
4:23pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Is this seriously what my tax pays for?
Anyone that arrives by the means he did should be sent back! If he was big enough to make the trip here, he can surely make the trip home!
I am sorry - but life in this country is hard enough as it is without this sort of nonsence being foisted upon us.
I DONT WANT TO PAY FOR THIS NONSENSE!
What are we coming to????

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Brian Sewer says...
8:36pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Have to agree, we seem to be going down the plug hole in this country !

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justine says...
8:40pm Wed 19 Nov 08

What a tragic story. Poor boy. As for 'life in this country is hard enough as it is', life in this country is great compared to other countries. Again a case of 'as long as I'm alright...'. He's only a kid, whether he's 16 or 18. My taxes can go on him any time.

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NastyMrTom says...
9:38pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Before we get bogged down with the usual I'd like to say that the headline of this story is journalistic sensationlism at it's very worst , I'm not impressed C.G

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NastyMrTom says...
10:33pm Wed 19 Nov 08

scoffer wrote:
This once great country of ours is reduced to this kind of nonsense - of course, it's become the norm for those who arrive in the backs of lorries and wan't to stay in the land of milk and honey to tell lies - give him a big-mac and send him on his way!!

When do you think this country was last 'great' ?
Where is it you would send this person ?

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NastyMrTom says...
10:38pm Wed 19 Nov 08

Womble wrote:
Is this seriously what my tax pays for? Anyone that arrives by the means he did should be sent back! If he was big enough to make the trip here, he can surely make the trip home! I am sorry - but life in this country is hard enough as it is without this sort of nonsence being foisted upon us. I DONT WANT TO PAY FOR THIS NONSENSE! What are we coming to????
Do you have much grasp what your tax is spent on ?

Do you seriously want to send this lad back 'home' without any knowledge of what you're sending him back to ?

There's no 'nonsence' here , it's the kid's life we're debating.

If you don't want to pay either don't pay your taxes or leave. You're totally free and able to do so.



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NastyMrTom says...
11:06pm Wed 19 Nov 08

justine wrote:
What a tragic story. Poor boy. As for 'life in this country is hard enough as it is', life in this country is great compared to other countries. Again a case of 'as long as I'm alright...'. He's only a kid, whether he's 16 or 18. My taxes can go on him any time.
Again a case of 'as long as I'm alright...'. He's only a kid

How true that without any information whatsoever about this lad's plight there's people wanting to send him somewhere else seemingly without a chance for his voice to be heard.
Thankfully that isn't the
country that I know and love. It may be an exasperating drain of money but we give this lad the basic right to speak and that's something that has been defended with the lives of many and does make us 'great'.

I like the rest of us have no idea about his case so I won't judge him purely because he got here on a lorry. He's trying to survive the best he can in a world that for him so far had taken his parents and has been hard and dangerous. I wish him luck.

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scoffer says...
9:24am Thu 20 Nov 08

Morning all!! The Daily Mail on page 2 today says, 'Immigration is running unchecked!! (yes they actually said this!!) at near record levels despite Government efforts to tackle the problem' it goes on... 'Labour's asylum policy has been dealt a fresh blow with figures showing the number of bogus claimants kicked out has FALLEN by TEN per cent. It leaves mimisters facing an uphill battle to clear the backlog of 285,000 failed asylum seekers. At the current rate of removal - even it there were no new claims lodged - it would take 23 years to clear it'

Are you happy with this ? no me neither!! Of course when I mentioned that immigration was "running unchecked" a little while ago on here, I was met by a foul tirade on here by a nasty individual who doesn't like the idea of decent, honest, people mentioning such issues... shame that - because it's only fair and proper to have 'balanced' views aired on sites like this otherwise we just get a one-sided view of someone who wants to shut everyone up from having any sensible views towards a subject that's in the news almost everyday - and fair play to the C.G. for printing such 'important' news items!! Thank you C.G.!!

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Brian Sewer says...
12:31pm Thu 20 Nov 08

If that figure of 285,000 is correct why can't these people be removed from England then

And 23Yrs to remove them, whats that all about then at this rate the country will go down the plug hole cant something be done about this it,s ridiculous !

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scoffer says...
1:07pm Thu 20 Nov 08

The figure of 285,000 Brian was released from the Government - it could well be more as the labour government in the past has made a hash of figures when it comes to new arrivals (it could well be intentional!!) - remember the 13,000 they said would only arrive from the eastern european countries ? it turned out to be a million!! The point is this - the immigration system is totally out of control - this is causing untold problems throught all communities schools, housing, the NHS - everything is being stretched to breaking point - people are quite right to speak out about this unfair problem being forced on us tax-payers footing the bill for this - we are in a unoffical recession but my mates in work all say we ARE in a recession - why make the situation even worse by importing more problems ? but what can we do about this ? supporting the same old parties seems pointless!!

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Bob Peel says...
2:11pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Save money, send the búgger back. Why should we keep being lumbered like this?

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scoffer says...
2:50pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Can't we send nastyMrTom around for a truely independant inspection of this chaps privates ? lol he/she seems to be an expert on most things!!

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Womble says...
4:58pm Thu 20 Nov 08

NastyMrTom wrote:
Womble wrote: Is this seriously what my tax pays for? Anyone that arrives by the means he did should be sent back! If he was big enough to make the trip here, he can surely make the trip home! I am sorry - but life in this country is hard enough as it is without this sort of nonsence being foisted upon us. I DONT WANT TO PAY FOR THIS NONSENSE! What are we coming to????
Do you have much grasp what your tax is spent on ? Do you seriously want to send this lad back 'home' without any knowledge of what you're sending him back to ? There's no 'nonsence' here , it's the kid's life we're debating. If you don't want to pay either don't pay your taxes or leave. You're totally free and able to do so.
sadly nastyMr Tom, I have a very good grasp of what my (& other lawabiding, working citizens) tax is spent on.
Nonsense like this! A long court case deciding whether an illegal immigrants genitals are developed!

As for a Kids life! Dont be so dramatic. This country looks after immigrants children better than its own! Look at the story of Baby P! Illegal immigrants end up with a lovely new house, on benefits paid for by me & the rest of us hard workers!
Dont spend my tax on other countries & their failures, Spend it on our country & our failures (of which there are many). Unfortunately the PC/do-gooder brigade, such as yourself are stopping that from happening.
Your last comment says it all, I am free to go elsewhere... Why the hell should I, I am born & bred here & have worked all my life, as did my parents & theirs before them! Plus, lets be honest. No other country will look after me the way this country looks after immigrants, before I get a job!!
Mind you, if you feel that strongly, maybe the next 4 or 5 hundered that arrive here next month illegally inside panel vans & underneath trucks at Dover can come & live with you?
WAKE UP UK! We are going to hell in a handbasket!

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justine says...
5:18pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Blimey, talk about overdramatising!

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NastyMrTom says...
7:04pm Thu 20 Nov 08

Womble wrote:
NastyMrTom wrote:
Womble wrote: Is this seriously what my tax pays for? Anyone that arrives by the means he did should be sent back! If he was big enough to make the trip here, he can surely make the trip home! I am sorry - but life in this country is hard enough as it is without this sort of nonsence being foisted upon us. I DONT WANT TO PAY FOR THIS NONSENSE! What are we coming to????
Do you have much grasp what your tax is spent on ? Do you seriously want to send this lad back 'home' without any knowledge of what you're sending him back to ? There's no 'nonsence' here , it's the kid's life we're debating. If you don't want to pay either don't pay your taxes or leave. You're totally free and able to do so.
sadly nastyMr Tom, I have a very good grasp of what my (& other lawabiding, working citizens) tax is spent on. Nonsense like this! A long court case deciding whether an illegal immigrants genitals are developed! As for a Kids life! Dont be so dramatic. This country looks after immigrants children better than its own! Look at the story of Baby P! Illegal immigrants end up with a lovely new house, on benefits paid for by me & the rest of us hard workers! Dont spend my tax on other countries & their failures, Spend it on our country & our failures (of which there are many). Unfortunately the PC/do-gooder brigade, such as yourself are stopping that from happening. Your last comment says it all, I am free to go elsewhere... Why the hell should I, I am born & bred here & have worked all my life, as did my parents & theirs before them! Plus, lets be honest. No other country will look after me the way this country looks after immigrants, before I get a job!! Mind you, if you feel that strongly, maybe the next 4 or 5 hundered that arrive here next month illegally inside panel vans & underneath trucks at Dover can come & live with you? WAKE UP UK! We are going to hell in a handbasket!
The case is about establishing the lad's age and not solely about his genitals. Although I can see how you'd think this by the way the article is written.

You have a very insular view of the world that thankfully isn't shared by the rest of our society. A problem in another country , especially a country far less able to cope than ours , is a problem for us all. You may feel happy turning a blind eye but that's not the way many others feel and they are represented accordingly by our government.
I don't understand what you feel an illegal immigrant would receive (if they were allowed to stay) over that of the family of Baby P ?

I appreciate that you feel connected to this country by family and the taxes you've paid. I simply meant that if you do believe 'we are going to hell in a hand basket' surely leaving is an option. If you'd prefer to stay and change things to suit your beliefs then that's all well and good. I don't think you'll see a government that's unwilling to offer aid to other countries in your lifetime though.

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scoffer says...
9:42am Fri 21 Nov 08

It's April the first right ? Oh no it's just nastyolTom's silly sausage post that has you thinking that way!! the moron thinks it's far better if all the decent, honest, indigenous, people of the U.K. just move away rather than accept the nonsense that's being peddled when it comes to asylum seekers!! lol - soorrry!! we ain't going anywhere chum p... we gonna keep demanding sensible immigration policies or vote out those who won't listen to the concerned members of the public - having your finger on the publics pulse is soo important in politics these days - otherwise MP's of ALL political parties will find themselves out of a job!!

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justine says...
9:50am Fri 21 Nov 08

I'm sure if the majority thought the way you do, you'd be able to vote out those who 'won't listen'. Unfortunately, you are a tiny minority.

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justine says...
9:50am Fri 21 Nov 08

I'm sure if the majority thought the way you do, you'd be able to vote out those who 'won't listen'. Unfortunately, you are a tiny minority.

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NastyMrTom says...
10:09am Fri 21 Nov 08

scoffer wrote:
It's April the first right ? Oh no it's just nastyolTom's silly sausage post that has you thinking that way!! the moron thinks it's far better if all the decent, honest, indigenous, people of the U.K. just move away rather than accept the nonsense that's being peddled when it comes to asylum seekers!! lol - soorrry!! we ain't going anywhere chum p... we gonna keep demanding sensible immigration policies or vote out those who won't listen to the concerned members of the public - having your finger on the publics pulse is soo important in politics these days - otherwise MP's of ALL political parties will find themselves out of a job!!
NastyMrTom, Croydon says...
7:04pm Thu 20 Nov 08

'If you'd prefer to stay and change things to suit your beliefs then that's all well and good.'

You don't read , you don't understand , you don't do much but whinge and write rubbish. I've stepped in more intelligent things than you

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Bob Peel says...
10:39am Fri 21 Nov 08

It/s LoB

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Bob Peel says...
10:41am Fri 21 Nov 08

When I was a youngster I was a member of a gang.

We used to hang around in twos; the gang was called 'The Gonads'!

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scoffer says...
11:16am Fri 21 Nov 08

I fully understand your old fashioned 'let everyone in the world come here' views - but where are we going to put them ? can we really afford to ? these are the questions sillysausgeTom cannot answer... she's already waffled on about our country having green countryside ? so presumably we'll have to concrete over all of that just to keep pace with the present numbers we have already!! yeah reeely intelligent NOT!! Of course - in all the popular newspapers it's full of 285,000 'failed' asylum seekers already here - and this Labour crew are unable to get rid of the problem - so yes, let's start kicking up a fuss and start letting the politicians know they are a 'failing' government - reduce their majority - keep the topic in the public domain eh ? arr yes... let the battle begin!! rofl!!

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justine says...
11:54am Fri 21 Nov 08

I'm sorry scoffer, but nobody said 'let everyone in the world come here', so the rest of your argument is irrelevant.

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scoffer says...
12:50pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Oh so you think there should be a limit on the numbers that come here then ? how many ? 1M? 5M? 10M? It's important to ask this question because then we can see roughly how many numbers we can look forward to having come here - if you havn't got an answer then it means we have people who support unlimited numbers coming here ?? err... big problem either way me thinks... we've already got 'official' figures from the government of 285,000 people who have exhausted the appeal system and now should leave the country and return home - the whole legal process is flawed unless the letter of the law is observed - why have a legal process in the first place if it's going to be ignored anyway ? - that just confirms what many people are saying - and that is NO more please - until we have a system that operates within the laws that are set out - it's not at all racist to try and think through things sensibly - instead of just purring... the poor little blighter... what can we do to help him and the other million who might come here too!! SOB!!

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justine says...
4:06pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Do you know what? I can't be bothered with you anymore. I've changed my mind, from now on I want 'everybody' to come here. The more the merrier!

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NastyMrTom says...
4:13pm Fri 21 Nov 08


The limit being talked about recently was a national total of 70m.

The logic of 'if you can't tell me a number that means you support unlimited numbers' is ridiculously stupid ....but since you're a moronic a**ehole I can't say I'm surprised

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NastyMrTom says...
4:24pm Fri 21 Nov 08

justine wrote:
Do you know what? I can't be bothered with you anymore. I've changed my mind, from now on I want 'everybody' to come here. The more the merrier!

As I've said before Justine - the trouble with arguing with and idiot is that they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The man's mind (and I use that term in hope) is so narrow he can look through a keyhole with both eyes at once

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scoffer says...
4:44pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Poor old justine... he thinks I actually care what she thinks or wants - if you cannot back up your views that's fine - but it's the innocent, honest, viewer who may actually be taken in by your comments and be hoodwinked into not seeing things properly - that's the only reason I bother with you.

As for sillyoldaftTom... her politics can be taken from any noddy and bigears book such is the soppy, ill-thought out dead-end views - still if keeps her happy with a bit of bedtime reading and away from the good ol C.G. website who are we to object eh ? eh ? and as fer peepingTom through keyholes eh ? cats out of bag now!! SOB!!

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NastyMrTom says...
5:11pm Fri 21 Nov 08

You've no idea what my political stance is.
You just NEED to think I'm a Marxist because your pathetic little mind can't handle the fact that there's an opposing view to yours that isn't part of some left wing plot.

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Womble says...
5:38pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Sadly, most of these comments tell me exactly what I should have known all along.
Freedom of speech & the right to object only applies to Illegal immigrants & mad clerics. Not to people like me who work hard & pay the way of these interlopers. No wonder the UK has become a dumping ground for other countries, when we are not even allowed to cry out against the injustices (such as the terrible waste of money cited abocve) without our own fellow countrymen denouncing us as rascists.
The PC brigade are a mighty Army & sadly, this thread has proven, those of us that want a forum to say "enough is enough" are beaten back by them at every turn :-(

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NastyMrTom says...
6:28pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Womble wrote:
Sadly, most of these comments tell me exactly what I should have known all along. Freedom of speech & the right to object only applies to Illegal immigrants & mad clerics. Not to people like me who work hard & pay the way of these interlopers. No wonder the UK has become a dumping ground for other countries, when we are not even allowed to cry out against the injustices (such as the terrible waste of money cited abocve) without our own fellow countrymen denouncing us as rascists. The PC brigade are a mighty Army & sadly, this thread has proven, those of us that want a forum to say "enough is enough" are beaten back by them at every turn :-(

Erm the only person to use the term racist in this thread is scoffer & you

Where has someone been denied freedom of speech ?

You've written your views , I've put my argument and somewhere along the line you've side stepped the discussion and started crying foul.

Do you want the right to object without allowing me the same ?



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Brian Sewer says...
7:05pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Sorry to take sides but i do think there is a problem with immigration in this country that has been swept under the carpet for far too long


Why dont they have an all party agreement with a view to solving the problem at least peoples fears and concerns could be taken on board ?

Hope my comments have not offended anyone cheers

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scoffer says...
7:35pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Do takes sides Brian!! it's a free country - but you're right - it has been swept under the carpet or stashed away from the publics gaze - until now!! the internet is on meltdown as people discuss on forums the most important issues of the day - I think there is about 75% support for restrictions on immigration on the internet - so the majority of decent folk want something done about it!! thank goodness for sensible joined up thinking I say - shame these daft MP's don't tune into the net and see these commonsense views!!

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justine says...
7:53pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Getting back to the subject of the article... thank your lucky stars scoffer that you aren't an asylum seeker then. If the size of your genitals had to be the deciding point to assess your age, you'd be put into Kindergarten. Never mind, what you lack in size you probably make up in speed. And at least your head is big.

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NastyMrTom says...
11:42pm Fri 21 Nov 08

Brian Sewer wrote:
Sorry to take sides but i do think there is a problem with immigration in this country that has been swept under the carpet for far too long Why dont they have an all party agreement with a view to solving the problem at least peoples fears and concerns could be taken on board ? Hope my comments have not offended anyone cheers
there's no problem at all with expressing your opinion Brian.
There's always going to be a line where people feel they can't go beyond with their charity and investment in causes.
There is also a very legitimate case for listening to the fears and concerns the public on this issue.
That being the case the need to present the FACTS on the subject rather than rhetoric designed to create fear with no basis whatsoever is vital.
This is the only concern I have with what's been posted.

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scoffer says...
9:06am Sat 22 Nov 08

Morning all!! Did anyone see the Boris Johnson is 'thinking' about calling for an amnesty for London's illegal immigunts ? I'm far too busy chasing this story at the moment on other forums - but one thing is clear... Boris is testing the water... he is trying to test the public's reaction - I sugest we all email him at City Hall and let him know!! I'm getting at least 50 friends and family to do this!! cheerio for now!! poor Boris wont know what's hit him!! rofl!!

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Brian Sewer says...
1:32pm Sat 22 Nov 08

NastyMrTom wrote:
Brian Sewer wrote: Sorry to take sides but i do think there is a problem with immigration in this country that has been swept under the carpet for far too long Why dont they have an all party agreement with a view to solving the problem at least peoples fears and concerns could be taken on board ? Hope my comments have not offended anyone cheers
there's no problem at all with expressing your opinion Brian. There's always going to be a line where people feel they can't go beyond with their charity and investment in causes. There is also a very legitimate case for listening to the fears and concerns the public on this issue. That being the case the need to present the FACTS on the subject rather than rhetoric designed to create fear with no basis whatsoever is vital. This is the only concern I have with what's been posted.
Thanks NastyMrTom


I get talking to many of my fellow rail passengers into East Croydon and quite often this subject crops up while we sit there reading the dailys its a concerning issue thats for sure

I think Scoffer is ok he probably just feels passionate about the issue that,s all not taking sides now, ha ha

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scoffer says...
3:08pm Sat 22 Nov 08

Brian - say and do what you like - you don't have to seek permission to speak your mind on here or anywhere else!! only pudden head fakes like nastyolconfused.Tom thinks we have to go around on our tip-toes treading ever so carefully minding our p's and q's ...when it comes to discussing immigration... but why should we - say what you like - how you like - but stay within the guidlines - I do and there is nowt anyone can do... keep on talking!! rofl!!

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ANNE GILES says...
3:35pm Sat 22 Nov 08

I thought this story was about men's privates. I'm going!

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scoffer says...
12:30pm Sun 23 Nov 08

Did anyone see in the Sunday newspapers that the French who rounded up all those Afghans in Calais looking for a better life in soft-touch Britain a few days ago... have now released them to try their luck in boarding transport to the U.K. again in Calais ? after promising the British Government they were going to send them back to Afghanistan, this is the things that get's up the noses of decent, honest, trusting, British people who are beginning to figure out this one way queue of economic migrants is causing major problems to this country - and it's not at all racist to say this... the French are not helping us one bit over this issue - perhaps we should just say we are pulling out of the E.U. ? - that would rattle the French!! I've also emailed Boris saying I voted for him in the Mayoral Elections - but never again!! if enough people threatened to do this it would scupper the whole idea of even contemplating this amnesty for illegal immigrants in London - Power to the people!!

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scoffer says...
9:29am Mon 24 Nov 08

Morning all from sunny Dumplington!! Well I hope all you southern pansies all emailed Boris at City Hall to complain about his daft idea of an amnesty of illegal immigrants!! Melanie Phillips (Mail) has written a good column today - the headline ? 'An amnesty for illegal immigrants ? What staggering stupidity, Boris' ...yes, Melaine couldn't agree more!!

Boris said that, 'An 'earned' amnesty for illegal imigrants who have lived in Britain for several years, he says, would allow them to earn citizenship and generate 'hugely increased' tax revenues'.... Melanie quite rightly shreds Boris with... 'earned citizenship ? these people have done no more to earn it than a squatter 'earns' the right to a house he has broken into simply by living there' she goes on about people being rewarded by evading and flouting the rules of Britain by simply avoiding capture!! quite right too!! some joined-up thinking at long last - journalists are starting to print exactly what the majority of the public are thinking!! well done Melanie!!

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I hope not says...
9:47am Tue 25 Nov 08

Scoffer,
I am southern but am certainly not a pansy, so please refrain from your childish insults. We all come on this site for different things, but personally I come on this site for interesting debate and to read other peoples' opinions, not to get insulted and so many of your posts are very disprespectful. Come on now, we're all supposed to be grown ups aren't we ? Please try and show some respect instead of continually insulting people. I'm interested in reading opinions, but as soon as I see the insults, my eyes glaze over and I lose interest. Keep it real and respectful, pretty please ?

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scoffer says...
1:34pm Sat 29 Nov 08

I hope not... lighten up a little - if you want 'debate' - go ahead and debate... i'm not stopping or insulting you - in fact, i've never seen your name posted on here before... now what is it you wish to debate ? over to you...

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scoffer says...
4:18pm Mon 1 Dec 08

Just an update Ron if you are looking in... or are you tinkering around on MySpace again ? Boris's GLA office has been swamped with emails from disgruntled Londoner's... my own reply went something like this... blah, blah, blah, jaw-jaw, jaw-jaw, and more jaw-jaw... the best bit was this... 'Boris has NO say in any anmesty - even if there was one' Yes... the silly sausage was just testing the waters... I told him I was never going to vote for him again - and would be looking at ALL political parties in 2009 to see which one appeals to me over this very important subject - and all my extended family would be doing likewise!! the silly rotter knows exactly what I meant by it too!! rofl!! Oh well back to MySpace... I mean work!! rofl!!

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