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HAVE YOUR SAY: Should people pay for damaging their health?

12:00pm Thursday 18th March 2010 in


In the first of News Shopper's Thursday Issue discussions we ask whether people who are reckless with their health deserve free NHS care. Have your say by adding your comments below.

The Thursday Issue is very simple. Each week we put a controversial question or suggestion to you, and ask if you agree or disagree with it.

Here is the first one:

People who bring on their own medical conditions should be made to pay for NHS treatment. So fat people with heart conditions, smokers with lung complaints and Saturday night drunks who fall over should all be billed by the health service.

Now it's over to you. Debate the rights or wrongs of free NHS treatment for all and tell us what you think.

Check News Shopper's website every lunchtime for a new daily opinion column. Friday will be a sport rant. Monday is the Shopper Rant on a topical news story. Tuesday is entertainment day and Wednesday's rant is written by a reader. Be sure to have your say if you agree or disagree with what you read.

Comments(38)

MB says...
12:25pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Yes they should, but only indirectly. It's well known that uneducated people on lower incomes are much more likely to be smokers and obese than others. It would be unrealistic to expect them to pay for the treatment of their conditions. Instead, there should be more taxes to discourage them and others from consuming excessive amounts of harmful substances and the proceeds of such taxes should be channeled directly to the NHS. Denmark apparently already has a tax on butter. The same idea could be taken further to cover products like cooking fats to make doughnuts and other trappings of obese people less attractive and to cover the cost of their care.

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Erastus says...
12:45pm Thu 18 Mar 10

No, they definitely SHOULD NOT!

Smokers and drinkers pay enough in tax over the years and, if anything, should receive premium care when it comes to medical treatment. The snivelling non-drinkers and non-smokers make me sicker than any cigar would as they preach to those of us who enjoy the odd drink and smoke.

The only thing worse than someone who has never drunk or smoked is the reformed ex-smoker/drinker. How they love to wave their hands about when they spot someone a hundred yards away enjoying a cigarette. These prigs can't wait to start telling the disinterested how they have discovered a whole new world since they gave up the booze and fags. Yes, a whole, new, BORING world for of blandness.

What happens to these puritans when they get ill? That's right, they go to hospital and are cared for by the NHS, even though smokers and drinkers have contributed more to the coffers than the herbal tea drinking, lentil eating, self-satisfied preachers and lovers of everything organic have or ever will.

Smokers and drinkers should be award platinum membership cards when they are admitted to hospital suffering from smoking- and drink-related diseases. They should be held in the highest esteem for sacrificing their own health in order that the more 'healthy' among us can benefit from the tax that is gained from cigarettes and alcohol.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

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Erastus says...
12:56pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Naturally, I mean to write, 'awarded'. My only excuse for this is error is that it has been a very long time since I contributed to NewsShoppershire and my pen is somewhat rusty.
Which reminds me, do yourself a favour and visit the blog section in Your Say. It will really make your day when I tell you that I have made a return to The Land of Blog.

You know it makes sense, so why fight it? See you there, suckers!

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

My security word is wine-help. It seems the Webmaster has kept his sense of humour.

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Citygirl83 says...
1:15pm Thu 18 Mar 10

ah my lord you have returned, you have been well missed xx

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Erastus says...
1:30pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Thank you, Citygirl. It is nice to be back among so many friends and enemies. I have to admit I have missed enducating those NS readers who are somewhat lacking in the grey matter and imagination stakes but it is comforting to know my absence has not gone unnoticed.

What I have noticed, however, is the lack of goings-on in The Land of Blog. Please visit Your Say and the blog section to find out more.

Your Lord, Erastus Theobald Piggott

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Aidy1982 says...
2:41pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Spot on my Lord!!!

I could not agree more!!!

Smokers and drinkers pay more into the NHS than anybody else and should therefore be entitled to a "platinum card" as you put it.

Many people are quick to say that treatment for smoking and / or drinking related conditions are self inflicted and should pay for their care. On that basis, as an example should somebody who breaks their leg skiing have to pay for their treatment? It was their choice to participate in this dangerous activity.

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Dartford1968 says...
2:49pm Thu 18 Mar 10

I totally agree with what is being said, although i think the youths of today that go out get drunk senseless start fights and end up in a&e at 12o'clock at night when there are genuine people who are ill waiting for hours to be seen are a waste of NHS time and money. But all above points are correct for the normal smoker and drinker we pay enough tax as it is.

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joncook says...
3:05pm Thu 18 Mar 10

MB wrote:
Yes they should, but only indirectly. It's well known that uneducated people on lower incomes are much more likely to be smokers and obese than others. It would be unrealistic to expect them to pay for the treatment of their conditions. Instead, there should be more taxes to discourage them and others from consuming excessive amounts of harmful substances and the proceeds of such taxes should be channeled directly to the NHS. Denmark apparently already has a tax on butter. The same idea could be taken further to cover products like cooking fats to make doughnuts and other trappings of obese people less attractive and to cover the cost of their care.
I have never read such utter rubbish! "It's well known that uneducated people on lower incomes are much more likely to be smokers and obese than others". What are you talking about! So what about all the doctors and nurses I see smoking outside hospitals? Uneducated are they? The Lawyers, solicitors and other city high flyers who smoke! Uneducated are they? The same is said for fat people, it makes no difference what your education is, it's about will power and common sense!

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Sayso says...
3:22pm Thu 18 Mar 10

It is an absolute myth to say smokers and drinkers pay extra tax INTO the NHS and are therefore entitled to some sort of special treatment.
The tax you pay on your disgusting habits goes into the government coffers but there is no link whatsoever between that and the funding of NHS treatment.
I think anyone who causes him or her self either a long-term illness or a short-term medical problem that needs patching up should be made to pay at least a contribution towards their care. We can call this a tax on stupidity.

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Erastus says...
3:38pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Let's face it, smoking and drinking are great sports, no one can deny that. The brave smokers and drinkers, who pay dearly with their health and their hard-earned ackers, deserve only the best of care when they require medical help. Those of you who regard the smoking and drinking stalwarts of putting a strain on the NHS should remember that every cigarette loving, booze addicted citizen, has invested thousands in tax over the years. The ones who have abstained from alcohol and tobacco should be grateful, not vindictive.
Let's hear it for the advocates of the grain, the grape and the tobacco plant. Long may they live happy lives and content themselves in the knowledge that they have paid their dues when they ultimately come face to face with the Grim Reaper and make their final journey up the crematorium chimney to take their seat in the great pub in the sky.
Sayso, you should feel absolutely ashamed of your selfish little self. You are evidently a cruel creature without a bone of compassion in your body. The next time you find yourself feeling unwell, I hope you go private because there is not a chance in hell that you have paid enough into the system to deserve treatment on the NHS. I wager you are one of the 'reformed' who likes to spout your holier than thou philosophy - over the top of The Guardian, no doubt - in the pop-in-parlour of your local library, before returning home to your terraced cottage in Blandville and boring your spouse senseless. For goodness sake, go out and get yourself a packet of fags and a six pack - it will do you the world of good, believe me!

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Erastus says...
3:44pm Thu 18 Mar 10

PS: and 'so say' all of us!

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Erastus says...
3:47pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Has anyone else noticed that Sayso seems to have an opinion on just about everything? A very one-sided, puerile and narrow-minded opinon, to sayso the least.

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Erastus says...
3:51pm Thu 18 Mar 10

'Opinion', even. It seems that the 'wise' words of Sayso numbed not only my brain for a split second, but also my spelling. Then again, I am a little rusty after my time away. Don't worry, Sayso, I will soon be back to full strength when I continue my blog in the Your Say section. In fact, I have already made a start, so why not treat yourself and pay the blogs a visit? I'm sure even YOU could find your way there without asking directions. Then again ...

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Citygirl83 says...
3:54pm Thu 18 Mar 10

What some people should remember is that some smokers and drinkers are addicted. I am a smoker, I have been for the last 8 years. I don't enjoy it and will eventually stop one day but what you must understand it is not as simple as you think. Yes it is my own fault for starting but I do not need someone ramming it down my throat. If I suffered an illness that was linked to my smoking I would pay privately, but that is purely my choice.

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Erastus says...
3:59pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Citygirl, you enjoy your cigarettes! Pay privately? No way - you deserve NHS treatment and should be given a private room with a colour telly. After all, you've paid your subscription, haven't you? The non-smoking brigade should light a candle for you in your hour of need and rejoice in the fact that you have sacrificed yourself in order that they sleep soundly in the knowledge that they will be cared for on the NHS, which is funded by the smoking and drinking heroes of Great Britain, God bless 'em.

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SMC2433 says...
4:04pm Thu 18 Mar 10

I actually think that people are being penalised for the opposite. Starting a diet, my doctor charged me £20 for filling in a 5 min health questionnaire (personal cheque made payable to himself), and then others have reported more charges for follow up blood pressure checks. Surely they should be encouraging healthy lifestyles, and weight loss, and not making people pay? In the long run, being healthier will cost the NHS less, so why penalise people like us?

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Erastus says...
4:14pm Thu 18 Mar 10

SMC2433, leading a healthy lifestyle is all very comendable, but it is rather boring, isn't it? No one lives forever, so live your life how you want to.
I recently attended my eye clinic and the surgeon who checked my mince pies absolutely stank of cigarettes, as did his nurse who I yesterday saw smoking a crafty fag in the bushes outside the hospital.
It's like the fat docs who have the cheek to examine you and then tell you that you need to lose a couple of stone! Their wallets grow fat on the obese and unhealthy, so much so that their mouths must water when Dartford residents enter their surgeries after a weekend on the booze, fags and greasy takeaways that are their staple diets.
Remember, if people stopped gorging themselves on sweets and fizzy drinks, dentists would soon be joining the queue down at the Job Centre. The same goes for doctors when it comes to smokers and drinkers; the members of the medical profession rely on the unhealthy masses to make them rich and prosperous.

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Sayso says...
4:17pm Thu 18 Mar 10

So Erastus, smokers and drinkers are good sports, even brave heroes, are they? They've shouldn't cough up a penny towards their health care when they start coughing up their lungs?
As I said earlier, it's completely untrue that smokers, drinkers or fatties who stuff their faces with food all day long contribute anything directly into the NHS in taxes above National Insurance, which everyone pays (well at least everyone who works i.e not benefits scroungers).
Where do you stand on the idiots who fight at weekends after pubs kick out then need patching up for cuts, broken limbs etc? Should they get away scot-free with making no contribution towards their care? How about idiots who fall over while not looking where they're going? What about people who take drugs?
The glorious NHS should continue being brought to its knees by every careless and ignorant dimwit who needs it?

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Erastus says...
4:32pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Good sports and brave heroes, every one of them!
Obviously, boozed-up miscreants who find themselves in accident & emergency after fighting should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves and warned of the dangers of rascally behaviour, but it's a symptom of overindulgence that should be respected by those who do not imbibe instead of villainized. Of course, they should NOT have to pay their medical expenses; over the course of their lives they will, no doubt, be more careful and continue to pay huge amounts into the NHS. A little hiccup in their drinking careers should not be held against them.
Sayso, since when did drug addicts pay tax? Actually, perhaps drugs should be legalised too; that way, even dopeheads will be paying their way and securing themselves first class treatment when they need it.
Sayso, I find it rather disappointing that you should resort to describing people as 'ignorant' and 'dimwit'. Pot and kettle springs to mind every time you come out with your unfounded and wholly repugnant views on life. Do you live in the borough of Bromley, by any chance? Perhaps it's time you left your keyboard and went to check on your 4x4? Just a suggestion, mind.

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wattsup says...
5:45pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Taxation applied to smokers and alcohol raises enough to cover the cost of the related illnesses. I do however believe that the drunk taken into casualty should be billed for all the costs incurred and that the same principle should be applied to sports injuries which clog up A & E at weekends ( I am aware of this issue from personal experience).

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Erastus says...
5:49pm Thu 18 Mar 10

I agree, wattsup. Self-inflicted sports injuries should be assessed and the patient charged accordingly. No doubt about it!

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SE9,10,18 says...
6:11pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Live an let live I say. If you want to smoke and drink by all means go ahead. The NHS is for everyone. If it starts to discriminate on who it treats we have problems....Do we treat UK citizens only? Do we only treat tax payers? Do we refuse treatment to a man who has come off a super bike? Do we say no to someone who hurts themself whilst rock climbing? The list goes on and on. Most people in A&E are through some fault on their part. Thats why we are lucky, because we all get the same level of care. My bugbear is this......I know a man, 34 years old. He drinks Super Skol lagers from morning til he falls asleep. He has not worked because of this since he was 24. He was sent to a rehab programme at the Royal Bethlem, at a cost of £4000+ for a 28 day stay. Yet within one day of discharge he was drinking again and had the community staff fooled. His reason for going was that "he fancied a holiday and would get a better flat after." He has drained resources from a system that is struggling. I wonder how many other people are draining the NHS in this way? It made me very angry and I told him that I thought it was wrong. Like many alcoholics, he pays nothing into society but leeches off it. Thats what I cant stand. If you work or have worked to pay your way....Eat drink (smoke) and be merry!

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Biscuit says...
6:20pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Quite agree. Some smug people seem to think smokers and drinkers and fat people are the only ones this would apply to.

But add to the list sports injuries, car crash injuries, drugs, DIY, unhealthy eating, lack of any exercise... ah the list is endless, but they all apply.

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SE9,10,18 says...
6:25pm Thu 18 Mar 10

SE9,10,18 wrote:
Live an let live I say. If you want to smoke and drink by all means go ahead. The NHS is for everyone. If it starts to discriminate on who it treats we have problems....Do we treat UK citizens only? Do we only treat tax payers? Do we refuse treatment to a man who has come off a super bike? Do we say no to someone who hurts themself whilst rock climbing? The list goes on and on. Most people in A&E are through some fault on their part. Thats why we are lucky, because we all get the same level of care. My bugbear is this......I know a man, 34 years old. He drinks Super Skol lagers from morning til he falls asleep. He has not worked because of this since he was 24. He was sent to a rehab programme at the Royal Bethlem, at a cost of £4000+ for a 28 day stay. Yet within one day of discharge he was drinking again and had the community staff fooled. His reason for going was that "he fancied a holiday and would get a better flat after." He has drained resources from a system that is struggling. I wonder how many other people are draining the NHS in this way? It made me very angry and I told him that I thought it was wrong. Like many alcoholics, he pays nothing into society but leeches off it. Thats what I cant stand. If you work or have worked to pay your way....Eat drink (smoke) and be merry!
Forgot to add..... I am an ex smoker, gave up when planning my baby who is now 5 months old. So over a year clean : ) occaisional drinker, not heavy (I wish!)

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Let's Agree To Differ says...
6:30pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Once again the knee-jerk reaction would be to say "yes of course they should."

But where do you draw the line and whose going to make that decision?

What about all the people who are knocked down on our roads? Some of those are unavoidable (as it were)some due to people actually not looking where they are going. Some due to chatting or using mobile etc etc. Should they be charged too?

There are many reasons for needing medical treatment and many of those are in one way or another self-inflicted.

The whole point of the NHS to treat everybody. Who can say hand on heart that they have not in any way ever been partly or wholly responsible for their medical needs.

Let's not start pitting sections of society against each other by rationing healthcare to the 'deserving'.

NHS should be there for all!If that is proving difficult to achieve financially then maybe it's time to look at that problem seriously and responsibly.

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Erastus says...
6:42pm Thu 18 Mar 10

Wise words from Let's, as always.

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dikmik says...
8:19pm Thu 18 Mar 10

With reference to Robert Fisks front page story in Wednesday 17th he has probably achieved his objective to incense all decent law abiding Bromley residents. How this person can be described as an intelligent and decent young man when he was driving a stolen car and wanted by the Police in connection with 3 burglaries beggars belief, the only positive to be drawn from this sorry episode is that the lorry driver was uninjured.

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Erastus says...
6:59am Fri 19 Mar 10

dikmik wrote:
With reference to Robert Fisks front page story in Wednesday 17th he has probably achieved his objective to incense all decent law abiding Bromley residents. How this person can be described as an intelligent and decent young man when he was driving a stolen car and wanted by the Police in connection with 3 burglaries beggars belief, the only positive to be drawn from this sorry episode is that the lorry driver was uninjured.
Slightly off-topic.

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Locked and Loaded says...
11:15am Fri 19 Mar 10

dikmik slightly off topic, but 100% right.

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Simon Bull says...
11:47am Fri 19 Mar 10

It's actually completely off topic and I'd request that comments on the rights or wrongs of the Andrew Wylie story be left in the relevant articles elsewhere on the site.
Let's please keep this discussion to the question posed at the top, should people contribute to their NHS care if they have caused their own illness or injury?

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Locked and Loaded says...
11:54am Fri 19 Mar 10

"It's actually completely off topic."

So whats new Simon !! :)

Point taken though.

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GODUPERE2 says...
12:10pm Fri 19 Mar 10

Undecided on whether self inflicted illnesses should pay directly. BUT, if they do, should they not qualify for a rebate against the national insurance they have paid, as they will be billed for the full course. This indeed can open up another debate, those who never visit the NHS services should get a full refund say at age 70?
Erastus my security word was grow size, is this a discrete instruction from Simon W?

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Erastus says...
12:22pm Fri 19 Mar 10

GODPUERE2, I believe Webmaster, Simon Bull The Wise, does have certain contacts who feed him information regarding contributors' personal habits and attributes, so be warned and stay on your guard! Between you and me, Webmaster will do ANYTHING for a story. Sshhh.

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Citygirl83 says...
1:02pm Fri 19 Mar 10

I have a scenario I would like to put forward, what about smokers or drinkers lets take smokers as I know someone who I can discuss, a family friend smoked from the age of 19 to 21, they are now 58 and have not smoked since their were 21. If they were taken to hospital and they were diagnosed with cancer should they be charged? When it says on the NHS smokefree website that within 10 years the risk of lung cancer is halved and the risk of heart attack falls to the same level as someone who has never smoked.

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APP says...
4:53pm Fri 19 Mar 10

What a load of rubbish, i like the way every1 targets the FAT, SMOKERS, DRINKERS but why not the ANOREXIC that starve themselves to death cos it still cost to keep them alive or wot bout the lets say EDUCATED PEOPLE as you say that exercise so much they give em selfs a heart attack i think people need to pratice wot they preach cos i definatly wudnt pay for treatment if i ever need it not wen u get todays headlines of illegal imagrants fraudin £50M outa da goverment and they not gettin deported till the finished there jail sentance wot a waste of cash to keep at the spectaculas HMP free Hotel wot a complete Joke.
OH and yh im FAT and i DO SMOKE so wot.

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Irwin says...
5:19pm Fri 19 Mar 10

I enjoy a smoke and a drink. I also work full time and pay enough in taxes and so on as it is.Also, it must be remembered that many diseases are genetic anyway and would develop at some point, in many cases,whether a smoker/drinker or not.
Pass me my Brandy and a Superking.

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mum2kids says...
4:52pm Sat 20 Mar 10

Erastus,

You must read a great book called 'A confederacy of Dunces'

You remind me of the main character, a man named Ignatious J Reilly!

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Tmcd says...
5:01pm Mon 22 Mar 10

If smoking and drinking impacted on the NHS so much on cash strapped briain then why dont the government decide to make smoking and drinking illegal?

They will not make it illegal as the money they make through taxing these items is more than what it costs the NHS to treat people with smoking and alchohol related diseases.

Yes I smoke and I drink and I am fully aware of the consequences yet I do not think I should have to pay any extra because of my lifestyle choice. I pay my taxes so why should I be discriminated against because I choose to smoke and drink?

anyway they say smokers and drinkers live shorter lives so therefore the government do not have to pay these people pensions for as long as a non smoker/drinker, thus balance is restored!

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