WHIPPS CROSS: Daughter of cancer patient slams hospital conditions (From This Is Local London)

Mr Jacobs chose an opportune moment to step down as Chair it would seem. I look forward to reading the Whipps apologists' efforts to explain this one away!

Nothing surprises about WX care. Do the family feel his care would have been any better in the '3rd World conditions' that exist in the sub continent?
Wonder why nobody asks the local MP - 'Happy' Harry Cohen for his personal opinion?
Heaven help those who get caught up in an incident during the 2012 games!

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The trouble with these "worst hospital in the world" stories is that they are cheap copy for the paper, but the hospital has no platform from which to present its side of the story, as by doing so they would breach patient confidentiality.

It only serves to demoralise the staff and users of the institution.

The staff, generally, work well above and beyond the call of duty and do a good job in often adverse conditions, but of course, like any large service industry, there will be bad apples in the barrel.

As a service user all my kids were born at Whipps, my wife and my children have all been inpatients at various time, and we've all had to visit A&E from time to time.

There's no denying that, at times, I've felt like pulling my hair out, but much less so than dealing with NTL, Natwest, British Gas, Ford, T Mobile, Orange, HMRC etc. etc. etc.

My big issue with the journalists that jump on these stories is there's little in the way of genuine commitment to the story. If the goings on are so terrible then where are the follow up stories and the in depth investigations? As soon as there is rumour in the air that a local hospital's services are under threat of closure or downsizing then these same journalists jump onto their white chargers to crusade to "Save Our Hospital", often in the same week as they wrote a leader trashing the very same institution.

It's cheap, lazy and irresponsible.

Come on Carl Brown et al. If you tried half as hard as most of the staff who work in the NHS, you wouldn't be reduced to writing stories like these.

so, poppyjuice, you think it's OKAY for an elderly ill man, post two serious operations to be trapped, away from any visitors, including family, in a deserted sealed-off hospital, with patients KNOWN to be carrying the deadly novovirus? in the bay that is supposed to be recuperating and healing in. That is NOT jumping on a press bandwagon, that is scandalous. Very pleased that you think that hospitals are 'like' dealing with a bank or phone company - those are not life-endangering -- hopsitals are supposed to ensure you get better. not the reverse.

Whipps is not part of the "service industry" -- it's part of the NHS -- fully piad up for by all of us. It's not meant to be run as a poorly staffed poorly run business. Why is 'demoralising' the staff an excuse to not say anything? especially when those same staff are sleeping on the job, not keeping things clean and not using plain common sense?

Stowcialite - I was very careful not to make any reference to the case of the patient in the article, I was talking in general terms about how lazy reporting like this does no one any favours.

Of course it's not alright that a patient after an operation couldn't see his family, but the hospital seems to have had Hobson's choice, there was a norovirus outbreak, which originates from the community, not from poor hygeine within, and if they'd allowed visiting to continue then they would be getting slated for not containing the outbreak. There may be issues with infection control once the outbreak starts, and presumably this is why they were so strict about not allowing any visiting, which must be understandably very frustrating if you have a loved one inside the hospital after major surgery.

Again, we don't know the details of this case, and the hospital can't reveal them beacuse it is bound to keep patient information confidential, but from the article it seems that the hospital looked at the possibility of getting the operation done elsewhere, but couldn't because intensive care was required, and as soon as it was possible he was transferred into a clean ward.

Dealing with the NHS is like dealing with other large corporations, don't forget that the NHS is the third largest employer in the world. Considering this I think that communication difficulties will be inevitable, as they are when you deal with a bank or a phone company. My point was, considering the size of the organisation, my experience of interacting with it is generally better than with other large organisations.

Healthcare is a service industry, regardless of how it is funded (http://en.wikipedia
.org/wiki/Category:S
ervice_industries). Absoultely, our money shouldn't be wasted on poor management and poor staffing is not acceptable, but slamming the hopsital like this doesn't address the underlying causes for the problems. Why aren't MPs and HMG held up over this? The hospital can only run and staff as the budget allows, and that budget is imposed not chosen.

Demoralising the staff isn't an excuse not to say anything, but the press has a responsibility to be saying the right things. Such as, what are the root causes for inadequate care in our NHS, and I'm fairly sure a lot of them rest with the higher powers, rather than the ground level staff, who work hard trying their best to care for us, often doing tasks that would turn the stomachs of the average person, for often a not very good wage.

And we reward them with articles like the one above. And accusations of sleeping on the job and lacking common sense don't help either, and I'm not sure where your evidence for this sort of comment lies.

What really annoys me is that the patients and families that the paper claims to represent, are really being used to generate attention grabbing headlines, and once the story stops being so sensational, it is dropped like a hot potato, with no further in depth invetigation or follow up. This is what I see as lazy journalism.

Of course hospitals are supposed to ensure you get better, and thankfully this gentleman seems to be doing just that. But it's a well established fact that lots of patients do come to harm whilst in the care of the NHS, often completely avoidably. This is where the big story lies, where journalists worth their salt should be focussing in an attempt to apply pressure on the higher echelons of the NHS to make things better and safer.

This article is simply shroud waving, as is your assertion that norovirus is deadly, when in fact, in the vast majority of cases, it is a self limiting matter, but clearly in the context of people who are already unwell it needs to be treated with more concern, which seems to be exactly what happened.

poppyjuice says "the hospital has no platform from which to present its side of the story". That platform should have been the Chair of its trust on whose watch these failings occurred. Mr Jacobs has now gone so quite where that leaves this failing institution is anyone's guess.

Whipps Cross isn't a failing hospital, newyear. You want to be careful before bandying around words like "failing".

The latest Dr Foster assessments for quality of care, for example, award it four out of five.

Steve Jacobs or any other chairman or woman worth their salt would not have commented publicly on a specific case. And you must know the hospital could not comment on a case involving an individual patient.

And I'm with poppyjuice. Making sweeping negative statements about the hospital on the back of a handful of complaints (as yet unsubstantiated) is not helpful.

I have to say I am impressed at how Whipps x managed this nightmare situation. I can't imagine for a second they relished the prospect of closing the hospital as they did. However, if something like norovirus is brought in from the community (which is where it comes from) then wipes out most of a hospital and its staff then extreme action needs to be taken-and it seems it was.
Stowcialite I'm sure you'd be one of the first to have a winge if the hospital had not taken measures to prevent further outbreak......in fact I'm pretty certain you're just the type.
Fact is the hospital managed an awful situation with the norovirus, and still managed to admit an elderly man requiring serious surgery and an ITU bed in the midst of it all, and by the sounds of the article he recovered well. Sure having no visitors is horrible for the patients and the families, it's also inconveniant and and costly to close a hospital -and it adds to the busy workload of other hospitals, but that's what was necessary and so that's what was done. Well done to the staff who struggled through it.

Popyjuice & Helen, thanks for the well thought out comments.

For the record nobody dies from norovirus. If people die in a infected hospital then it's because they're touch and go in the first place and have complex co-morbidities.

Also for the record, and from the limited details above, whats the greatest risk for the patient? Having a procedure in a facility with NO ITU or substantial cardiac support, having them transferred to another NHS facility with staff unfamiliar with his case, leaving the cancer to spread whilst the waiting for WX to deal with the infection outbreak or bringing the patient in to the WX facility in a controlled way and ensuring that they get treatment (when many others didn't).

I think that the one dimentional thought process at work both in the article and some of the comments regarding the "disgraceful" treatment should simply be disregarded.

I do have a lot of simpathy for the patients relatives as it was a difficult time having all the worry and angst from the condition itself, on top of the restrictions of the hospital at that time, must have been a terrible experiance and my thought go out for a speedy recovery.

Maybe sounding bitter & twisted here but the gentlemans daughter sounds more upset that dad wasnt admitted to the private hospital !!.
The error that was made in the notes was of course unacceptable but human error and should be investigated.
Any service offered by WXH during an unprecedented outbreak of Norovirus should be commended as an outstanding achievement. The
life saving surgery that was carried out on her father is certaintly something that I would be thanking them for!.
A remarks like a "Yogoslavian War Camp" apart from being absurd is inaccurate. No one can be left alone on a ward that is staffed by Doctors, Nurses, Domestics etc, but anyone that understands the need for Infection Control would appreciate why visitors wouldnt be allowed.

In response to "my views" comments, you do sound very bitter and twisted and how dare you make such a comment considering you know only a small part of the full story! This has nothing to do with whether it is a private or NHS hospital, it is about the care received or not in this case by a very close friends father.
I am absolutely appalled that some people are basically trying to justify this kind of behavior on a very poorly man/anyone.
Put yourself in the situation of the family, could you imagine the awful thoughts going through the families minds once getting that phone call. Only to then be called back and be told it was the wrong person??!!
I'm not quite sure how sick you would like this man to be before this article was released! I will remind you the man has cancer not a cold!
I think it's a disgrace and for you to sit there commenting in the way some of you have is beyond me.
Complaint's have been raised by the family for no other reason than to raise awareness of patient treatment in hopes this could actually bring to light that a lot of work is required at Whipps and many other UK hospitals to provide a level of service that we should be able to expect considering the money that is put into the NHS each year.
I know that one of Mr Ishaq's daughters concerns was that he was left on his own, and left segregated in an infected ward when he didn’t have the virus, without it being explained to him why he was being "slotted” in between two other patients and for how long he would be there.
The whole thing from start to now has been a complete mess.
I can’t understand today’s society, why do some people feel they can run someone down for trying to support and defend her father!!

Zahl, unfortunately I think you have missed the fact that many of the comments so far have acknowledged and empathised with the horrible situation of having no family and visitors nearby.
It's very naive to think that by going to the local rag and participating in a story about 'look how dreadful my local hospital is' will draw the same opinion from all those who read it. Of course people are going to view it from different perspectives, and I'm sorry that that leaves you appalled and unable to understand today's society.....but that's your call.
Don't forget that many of us will only have had good experiences of our local hospital, and don't find it easy to jump on the bandwagon on the strength of a story like this.
Many of us will just be really glad that this man recieved his important surgery and got an ITU bed, and recovered well...despite the crisis happening in the hospital.

@ 'my views' 10.22, 11th Feb.

Maybe i have interpreted your initial comment incorrectly but I am struggling to understand why you would feel bitter and twisted towards somebody who's family member has just received cancer treatment and a major operation. I would also question how you have come to such a conclusion given the information given in the article? The integrity and validity of you're other comments are severely questionable due to this highly inconsiderate and ill informed opening gambit. I would recommend you detract this 'pearl of wisdom' or I shall have to add uncompassionate and loose tongued to your list of already un-enviable character traits.

I do agree that articles like these appear to be lazy journalism, and i'm sure the newspaper has an agenda of their own regarding the Hospital. By using peoples individual experiences to follow this agenda is irresponsible - as has been pointed out - if they do not follow it up with committed investigation. Will The Guardian now look into the Hospitals' procedure for the outbreak of viruses or getting patient records mixed up and hold those responsible to account if there are a lack of resources or training provided or any other procedural deficiencies. I look forward to Carl's follow up investigation, but will not hold my breath.

It doesn't figure that if an individual's experience of a hospital is bad, then the hospital as a whole is bad but then of course the opposite is also true. If there are genuine failings then they need to be investigated, any cuts in resources as have been proposed will surely only compound the issue.

high horse 11/2
Gosh, you have misinterpreted just about every thing that I said but I am happy though to put this down to my poor writing skills!
I certainly would not consider detracting a comment anymore than you would. Equally, your many "pearls of wisdom" have been noted but not taken on board because you, like me are entitled to an opinion.

my views wrote:
high horse 11/2
Gosh, you have misinterpreted just about every thing that I said but I am happy though to put this down to my poor writing skills!
I certainly would not consider detracting a comment anymore than you would. Equally, your many "pearls of wisdom" have been noted but not taken on board because you, like me are entitled to an opinion.

Yes, it's easier to hide behind your poor writing skills and cite misinterpretation than it is to explain why you would sound bitter and twisted, as you yourself state. How on earth did you jump to this conclusion "the gentlemans daughter sounds more upset that dad wasnt admitted to the private hospital !!" from the details in the article.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but if that opinion is perceived as bitter, twisted, ill-informed and inconsiderate then you run the risk of your opinion being questioned and being asked for an explanation. Whether you choose to answer those questions or explain the basis upon which your opinions are formed is another matter.

It might also be more considerate if you had asked me first if I would consider detracting a comment of my own before assuming otherwise.