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Late ballot papers and 'interference' investigated
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| Making a mark: a voter enters a polling station but not all found the democratic process as straightforward as usual |
Controversy beset the elections across Barnet leading to allegations of foul play last week.
Ballot papers arrived late and election officials gave inappropriate advice to voters, according to some residents taking part in the London-wide elections.
One voter claimed up to 12 people were directed into a room where they received an explanation of the process of tactical voting.
The allegation of interference, which has been referred to the police by Barnet Council, could be treated as a criminal offence if found to be true.
Jacqui Hobson, a resident of the borough, claims a presiding officer gave a ten-minute talk about how to use the forms and direct votes.
She said: "Usually polling stations are quiet, and the only thing you are asked is your name and address, but a lot of people looked shocked we were being spoken to like we were five-years-old.
"We live in a democratic society, and it didn't seem like that. I didn't think people were allowed to influence in that way. The votes from there should be considered null and void."
A council spokesman said: "A complaint has been received by our electoral services team relating to the conduct of a presiding officer on May 1.
"As this is potentially a criminal matter, we are unable to comment further prior to any potential police investigation."
Barnet police confirmed the allegation had been reported but were unable to say what action had been taken.
In Friern Barnet, some residents said they were unable to vote between 7pm and 8pm because of a lack of ballot papers at the polling station in Goldsmith Road.
Bob Pearson, who was conducting an exit poll, said voters reported papers running out on one side of the polling station. He said voters were told the remaining papers could not be divided out because they were already registered to an address.
He added: "I spoke to various people going in and they were furious to lose their democratic right.
"If people from one area were unable to vote, they shouldn't have let the other side of the road continue voting."
Conservative ward councillor for Coppetts, Kate Salinger, said: "I find it unbelievable that in 2008 the required number of ballot papers were not at the polling station.
"We were trying to get people
out to vote and, when we heard
they were not able to, we couldn't believe it."
A council spokesman admitted the station was down to 100 papers, but said they had not received any complaints from people unable to vote.
He added: "The returning officer became aware there weren't enough ballots delivered and ordered more, but at no point did they run out."
Residents in Mill Hill had been made to wait earlier in the day after ballot papers failed to turn up to some polling stations on time.
Five polling stations were without the required papers for up to 20 minutes after the elections began at 7am.
A council spokesman said there was a problem on Wednesday night with the automated system for allocating the borough's 175,000 ballot papers.
The allocation had missed 20 polling stations, meaning the process had to be carried out manually by the electoral registration team.
The spokesman said the team worked tirelessly throughout the night to ensure all 160 polling stations opened on time, but added: "Unfortunately, a handful of polling stations did not receive their ballot papers until some minutes after 7am and we sincerely apologise to those voters affected."
The five polling stations affected were Mill Hill East Station, Dollis Infants School, Barnet Impact, St Paul's Church Hall and Courtland JMI School, which was last to have its papers delivered at 7.21am.
9:10am Thursday 8th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Daniel Hope, Barnet on 5:40pm Thu 8 May 08
Hallelujah. A Councillor speaks! But why are the other £1,000,000 Councillors too cowardly to speak up in public when things go wrong? Why is the Chief Executive not speaking publicly and openly on this? This Council is becoming increasingly remote and machine like.
Hallelujah. A Councillor speaks! But why are the other £1,000,000 Councillors too cowardly to speak up in public when things go wrong? Why is the Chief Executive not speaking publicly and openly on this? This Council is becoming increasingly remote and machine like.
Posted by: Fed Up, LBB on 8:03pm Thu 8 May 08
I was bewidered when looking at my polling card this time around. There was a polling station situated across the road from my home, however my designated one was about three quarters of a mile up the road. My inclination to wander up there in the rain after returning home from work was fairly limited. Could this have been intentional?
I was bewidered when looking at my polling card this time around. There was a polling station situated across the road from my home, however my designated one was about three quarters of a mile up the road. My inclination to wander up there in the rain after returning home from work was fairly limited. Could this have been intentional?
Posted by: Hannah, Barnet on 8:52pm Thu 8 May 08
Is this Councillor, sorry former Councillor Hope being bitter again? The question to be asked is did this have a material effect on the result of the election? My guess is no, and if the council has had no complaints people can't be that upset. Time to accept that sometimes people do the best in a bad situation. As for the guy giving advice, could it be that it is just sour grapes from one of the losers in the vote?
Is this Councillor, sorry former Councillor Hope being bitter again? The question to be asked is did this have a material effect on the result of the election? My guess is no, and if the council has had no complaints people can't be that upset. Time to accept that sometimes people do the best in a bad situation. As for the guy giving advice, could it be that it is just sour grapes from one of the losers in the vote?
Posted by: Fed Up, LBB on 9:05pm Thu 8 May 08
Hannah, if by 'the guy giving advice' you're referring to myself, there are no sour grapes involved whatsoever. I didn't vote, as I'm not in the habit of banging my head against a wall. I'm looking forward to moving out of this area sometime soon and leaving it to the self-satisfied people that deserve it. I can't compete with you, and really don't have any wish to, keep keeping up with the Jones'es, you know it makes sense.
Hannah, if by 'the guy giving advice' you're referring to myself, there are no sour grapes involved whatsoever. I didn't vote, as I'm not in the habit of banging my head against a wall. I'm looking forward to moving out of this area sometime soon and leaving it to the self-satisfied people that deserve it. I can't compete with you, and really don't have any wish to, keep keeping up with the Jones'es, you know it makes sense.
Posted by: Don't Call Me Dave, People's Republic of Barnet on 9:12pm Thu 8 May 08
Hannah
What is “a material affect”? If even just one voter has been denied the opportunity to cast his/her vote due to the incompetence of the council, then the Returning Officer must walk the plank.
Hannah
What is “a material affect”? If even just one voter has been denied the opportunity to cast his/her vote due to the incompetence of the council, then the Returning Officer must walk the plank.
Posted by: Reality, Bites on 10:17pm Thu 8 May 08
Good to see Daniel being bitter again !
So the Ballot papers were twenty minutes late, Well Bo Ho: it's not ideal, it's not good, it should have been handled better; now get over it. If Leo Boland can't do better next time, then sack the useless g**.
If just one voter has been denied his right to vote, well that's life get over it.
Good to see Daniel being bitter again !
So the Ballot papers were twenty minutes late, Well Bo Ho: it's not ideal, it's not good, it should have been handled better; now get over it. If Leo Boland can't do better next time, then sack the useless g**.
If just one voter has been denied his right to vote, well that's life get over it.
Posted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 8:12pm Fri 9 May 08
Having read "Reality Bites" comment here, I suddenly realise that Daniel Hope is not as bad as I thought. He makes a good point above. I am starting to think he is actually the sensible wing of the Barnet Tories.
Mill Hill is a predominantly commuter ward. Anyone wishing to be in work for 9am in the City will probably get the 7.36, 7.47 or 8.06 train from Mill Hill. I'd estimate at least 50-100 people board each of these trains. As many commuters cast their vote before work and many of these would have seen the chaos and left without voting. How many didn't vote? How many were inconvenienced? Barnet Council had 4 years to prepare and they could get it organised. Maybe "Reality Bites" doesn't value his vote but what right has he to dismiss other peoples democratic right. A bit of advice to you Reality - if you can't say anything vaguely intelligent be quiet. You are only making yourself look silly.
Having read "Reality Bites" comment here, I suddenly realise that Daniel Hope is not as bad as I thought. He makes a good point above. I am starting to think he is actually the sensible wing of the Barnet Tories.
Mill Hill is a predominantly commuter ward. Anyone wishing to be in work for 9am in the City will probably get the 7.36, 7.47 or 8.06 train from Mill Hill. I'd estimate at least 50-100 people board each of these trains. As many commuters cast their vote before work and many of these would have seen the chaos and left without voting. How many didn't vote? How many were inconvenienced? Barnet Council had 4 years to prepare and they could get it organised. Maybe "Reality Bites" doesn't value his vote but what right has he to dismiss other peoples democratic right. A bit of advice to you Reality - if you can't say anything vaguely intelligent be quiet. You are only making yourself look silly.
Posted by: Reality, Bites on 9:10pm Fri 9 May 08
What happened in Mill Hill was regrettable, and certainly not desirable, but it was a human failing. We hope that the returning officer learns from his mistakes and demonstrates his gained knowledge by handling the next election in a better manor; otherwise he should be removed from the job.
What Rog T demonstrates here in his comments are also human traits.
When faced with opinions to which he does not agree, he attacks the person not the argument: that is a human quality usually demonstrated by immature humans.
When faced with human failings he does not give an allowance for the fact that in 95% of the Borough of Barnet there was no failure of the poll nor does he speak of Camden which was administered by the same returning officer which had no problems: by ignoring the relative scale of the problem he fails to demonstrate a sense of proportion, this also is an attribute of the immature.
We can only hope that Rog T will learn to demonstrate a sense of proportion and gain maturity whilst refraining from indulging in personal insults.
Until that time, Rog T will continue to degrade the value of his expressed opinions.
But I somehow doubt he will be able to see it quite that way.
What happened in Mill Hill was regrettable, and certainly not desirable, but it was a human failing. We hope that the returning officer learns from his mistakes and demonstrates his gained knowledge by handling the next election in a better manor; otherwise he should be removed from the job.
What Rog T demonstrates here in his comments are also human traits.
When faced with opinions to which he does not agree, he attacks the person not the argument: that is a human quality usually demonstrated by immature humans.
When faced with human failings he does not give an allowance for the fact that in 95% of the Borough of Barnet there was no failure of the poll nor does he speak of Camden which was administered by the same returning officer which had no problems: by ignoring the relative scale of the problem he fails to demonstrate a sense of proportion, this also is an attribute of the immature.
We can only hope that Rog T will learn to demonstrate a sense of proportion and gain maturity whilst refraining from indulging in personal insults.
Until that time, Rog T will continue to degrade the value of his expressed opinions.
But I somehow doubt he will be able to see it quite that way.
Posted by: Roger Tailor, Totteridge on 11:02am Sat 10 May 08
Good to see Daniel being bitter again !
So the Ballot papers were twenty minutes late, Well Bo Ho: it's not ideal, it's not good, it should have been handled better; now get over it. If Leo Boland can't do better next time, then sack the useless g**.
If just one voter has been denied his right to vote, well that's life get over it.
Good to see Daniel being bitter again !
So the Ballot papers were twenty minutes late, Well Bo Ho: it's not ideal, it's not good, it should have been handled better; now get over it. If Leo Boland can't do better next time, then sack the useless g**.
If just one voter has been denied his right to vote, well that's life get over it.
Posted by: Dis, Proportionate on 11:04am Sat 10 May 08
If one person was deined their vote the the Returning Officer should be put in prision.
If one person was deined their vote the the Returning Officer should be put in prision.
Posted by: Phili Buster, Mill Hill on 11:05am Sat 10 May 08
Bob Pearson, who was conducting an exit poll, said voters reported papers running out on one side of the polling station. He said voters were told the remaining papers could not be divided out because they were already registered to an address.
He added: "I spoke to various people going in and they were furious to lose their democratic right.
Bob Pearson, who was conducting an exit poll, said voters reported papers running out on one side of the polling station. He said voters were told the remaining papers could not be divided out because they were already registered to an address.
He added: "I spoke to various people going in and they were furious to lose their democratic right.
Posted by: Reality, Bites on 12:45pm Sat 10 May 08
Democracy is really important and we must make great efforts to promote it's practise.
I do know that there are some people out there who will criticise me for supporting democracy.
But we must also remember the human eliment and retain a sense of proportion. Yes there were mistakes in Mill Hill, but in the other twenty barnet wards there were no mistakes. In Camden there were no mistakes. So lets remember that the returning officer got it mostly right.
I do know that this will not be acceptable to Rog T. So sorry, too bad.
Democracy is really important and we must make great efforts to promote it's practise.
I do know that there are some people out there who will criticise me for supporting democracy.
But we must also remember the human eliment and retain a sense of proportion. Yes there were mistakes in Mill Hill, but in the other twenty barnet wards there were no mistakes. In Camden there were no mistakes. So lets remember that the returning officer got it mostly right.
I do know that this will not be acceptable to Rog T. So sorry, too bad.
Posted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 4:01pm Sat 10 May 08
"Reality Bites" you are quite right. I do find it unacceptable. I run a business and attention to detail is the difference between success and failure. I have no idea why you seem to find such poor performance from Barnet Council acceptable.
Tell me, are you part of this campaign to post nonsense under the name of Phili Buster et all of is it just an unfortunate coincidence?
If Barnet Council had performed perfectly and this was the only time they had shown themselves unable to organise anything, maybe you'd have a point but it seems to happen all the time. What about the meals on wheels fiasco? The chopped down trees in a nature reserve without proper surveys being performed to name but two. The former Mayorerected an extension without planning permission whilst head of the Hendon Planning committee. This is a council which took 3 years to process a rates appeal for my business which returned thousands of pounds of my money to me. This is a council which has done nothing about illegal turns onto Mill Hill Broadway, despite doing a survey a year ago which found this happened 300 times per day. This is a council which has 6,000 families waiting for accomodation, whilst allowing private developers free reign over West Hendon. This the council which says it cares about the environment, but wants to put a dual carriageway across Montrose Park.
I am sorry if you don't like these facts, but the council are incompetant. We see it every day. It is badly lead and inefficient. If you want to explain all of these instances of incompetance then fine, fire away.
I expect all I'll get is another 20 posts from you and your mates in an attempt to hide the truth.
"Reality Bites" you are quite right. I do find it unacceptable. I run a business and attention to detail is the difference between success and failure. I have no idea why you seem to find such poor performance from Barnet Council acceptable.
Tell me, are you part of this campaign to post nonsense under the name of Phili Buster et all of is it just an unfortunate coincidence?
If Barnet Council had performed perfectly and this was the only time they had shown themselves unable to organise anything, maybe you'd have a point but it seems to happen all the time. What about the meals on wheels fiasco? The chopped down trees in a nature reserve without proper surveys being performed to name but two. The former Mayorerected an extension without planning permission whilst head of the Hendon Planning committee. This is a council which took 3 years to process a rates appeal for my business which returned thousands of pounds of my money to me. This is a council which has done nothing about illegal turns onto Mill Hill Broadway, despite doing a survey a year ago which found this happened 300 times per day. This is a council which has 6,000 families waiting for accomodation, whilst allowing private developers free reign over West Hendon. This the council which says it cares about the environment, but wants to put a dual carriageway across Montrose Park.
I am sorry if you don't like these facts, but the council are incompetant. We see it every day. It is badly lead and inefficient. If you want to explain all of these instances of incompetance then fine, fire away.
I expect all I'll get is another 20 posts from you and your mates in an attempt to hide the truth.
Posted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 4:01pm Sat 10 May 08
"Reality Bites" you are quite right. I do find it unacceptable. I run a business and attention to detail is the difference between success and failure. I have no idea why you seem to find such poor performance from Barnet Council acceptable.
Tell me, are you part of this campaign to post nonsense under the name of Phili Buster et all of is it just an unfortunate coincidence?
If Barnet Council had performed perfectly and this was the only time they had shown themselves unable to organise anything, maybe you'd have a point but it seems to happen all the time. What about the meals on wheels fiasco? The chopped down trees in a nature reserve without proper surveys being performed to name but two. The former Mayorerected an extension without planning permission whilst head of the Hendon Planning committee. This is a council which took 3 years to process a rates appeal for my business which returned thousands of pounds of my money to me. This is a council which has done nothing about illegal turns onto Mill Hill Broadway, despite doing a survey a year ago which found this happened 300 times per day. This is a council which has 6,000 families waiting for accomodation, whilst allowing private developers free reign over West Hendon. This the council which says it cares about the environment, but wants to put a dual carriageway across Montrose Park.
I am sorry if you don't like these facts, but the council are incompetant. We see it every day. It is badly lead and inefficient. If you want to explain all of these instances of incompetance then fine, fire away.
I expect all I'll get is another 20 posts from you and your mates in an attempt to hide the truth.
"Reality Bites" you are quite right. I do find it unacceptable. I run a business and attention to detail is the difference between success and failure. I have no idea why you seem to find such poor performance from Barnet Council acceptable.
Tell me, are you part of this campaign to post nonsense under the name of Phili Buster et all of is it just an unfortunate coincidence?
If Barnet Council had performed perfectly and this was the only time they had shown themselves unable to organise anything, maybe you'd have a point but it seems to happen all the time. What about the meals on wheels fiasco? The chopped down trees in a nature reserve without proper surveys being performed to name but two. The former Mayorerected an extension without planning permission whilst head of the Hendon Planning committee. This is a council which took 3 years to process a rates appeal for my business which returned thousands of pounds of my money to me. This is a council which has done nothing about illegal turns onto Mill Hill Broadway, despite doing a survey a year ago which found this happened 300 times per day. This is a council which has 6,000 families waiting for accomodation, whilst allowing private developers free reign over West Hendon. This the council which says it cares about the environment, but wants to put a dual carriageway across Montrose Park.
I am sorry if you don't like these facts, but the council are incompetant. We see it every day. It is badly lead and inefficient. If you want to explain all of these instances of incompetance then fine, fire away.
I expect all I'll get is another 20 posts from you and your mates in an attempt to hide the truth.
Posted by: Reality, Bites on 6:39pm Sat 10 May 08
I didn't think we'd see eye to eye over this one...
I didn't think we'd see eye to eye over this one...
Posted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 11:10am Sun 11 May 08
As usual, no answers from the voice of reason
As usual, no answers from the voice of reason
Posted by: Fed Up, LBB on 10:42pm Mon 12 May 08
Rog, I'm still reading all of this with an increasing interest. I used to sit in the shadows, but I'm growing increasingly angry about what I'm learning on these posts. You seem to be correct about teams of organised posters filling these comment sections with their 'party lines'. I'm still in two minds about leaving this area, it's starting to liven up!
Rog, I'm still reading all of this with an increasing interest. I used to sit in the shadows, but I'm growing increasingly angry about what I'm learning on these posts. You seem to be correct about teams of organised posters filling these comment sections with their 'party lines'. I'm still in two minds about leaving this area, it's starting to liven up!
Posted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 11:57am Tue 13 May 08
Dear Fed Up, it is amazing the lengths some people will go to on a local paper websites. I guess it tells us all quite a lot about them.
Then again the way they go about it is quite easy to spot. I notice the Times removed most of these posts from the other threads, I guess they left it here just so we could all see what these guys are up to. sad really, but I guess some people will revert to any means, fair or foul.
Dear Fed Up, it is amazing the lengths some people will go to on a local paper websites. I guess it tells us all quite a lot about them.
Then again the way they go about it is quite easy to spot. I notice the Times removed most of these posts from the other threads, I guess they left it here just so we could all see what these guys are up to. sad really, but I guess some people will revert to any means, fair or foul.
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