it is such a shame that another persons life has been destroyed by such nasty people, is there a need to carry weapons especially a gun? can i someone explain why they do this, just goes to show what our society has become.
long gone the talking things out, but they have to kill someone to get there point across. when are they going to realsie what they are doing, only when its too late and they are killed themselves.

Jodie wrote:
it is such a shame that another persons life has been destroyed by such nasty people, is there a need to carry weapons especially a gun? can i someone explain why they do this, just goes to show what our society has become. long gone the talking things out, but they have to kill someone to get there point across. when are they going to realsie what they are doing, only when its too late and they are killed themselves.

You can pretty much put it down the ghetto culture and mentality of many young (and unfortunately mostly black)youths.

They crave so-called 'respek' (and I say so-called because they dont really know the meaning of the word), and added to this these youths often lack a strong parental figure.

The result is a culture of violence and agression, glorified by many hip-hop 'artists' in the music industry.

Unfortunately it's hard for many to escape this because it's a vicious circle that they're trapped in...but then there are others that actually enjoy it.

Hello Leon

Can I politely ask if you are yourself black and so are giving this statement as someone who has had first hand experience?

If so it is nice to see that everybody hates this culture that has built-up. It's the same as hoodies really. I will say it again that I feel we are losing our identity as the "Youth" seem to want to be American. Even the government has changed the titles in schools from 1st, 2nd, 3rd year etc to Year 8, 9, 10. There are no school discos or 5th Year leavers do's anymore. Now it is A School Prom (Just like the Americans).

I have nothing against Americans trust me, but I feel let down that we are not strong enough to keep the gun culture from coming over here. It seems that most young men are now carrying either a knife or worse these days.

Does Operation Trident feel like its getting anywhere I wonder? Or is it just banging its head against a very thick wall?

This was a totally forseeable event and the police authorities are hypocrites in asking for a response from witnesses to this event. Why was there not a police or 'community' officer placed outside before the event to assist the venue boucers? This event had caused innumerable problems before outside that venue in terms of robberies & anti social behaviour. (Don't take my word, ask the local shopkeepers). Lambeth has the highest rate of school exclusions in London. Those left in school put up with a shoddy discredited system that turns out functionally illiterate and psychologically damaged individuals. Add to that a goverment that has assisted in the decline of family life during the past 20 years and this is what you get.....moronic, violent, cold blooded and self hating a bastards. The real Black community are going to have to stand up and be counted on this one and not have the 'authorities' speak on our behalf. I am Black and seriously **** off.

You can pretty much put it down the ghetto culture and mentality of many young (and unfortunately mostly black)youths.

Yeah Leon u r overly right... alot of youths n oldahs these days fink dere baddermans and i think dey do it 4 street cred infact no they are doing it for street cred. Its sad that James had to die like that i mean its 2007 BLACK people need 2 stand up tall n respect eachother not go round killing eachother. Im not sayin it in a racist way dnt get it twisted but lyk u sed its mostly unfortunately blacks however this is influencein other races...2 any "ghetto" boi or gyal readin this who agrees with the murder of james or any others like this i suggest u watch Roll Deep-Bad man. Think again.
nuff love ... rip james x x x

RD, I agree with you. I'm ****ed off too, but your comment on how there should have been a community officer there isn't really feasible. Can you imagine how many city centres require an officer to stand outside any number of trouble spots? If we did that in London alone, there'd be no Bobbies anywhere else in the country! I think that metal detectors at places such as the rink, pubs, clubs, etc would do a better job at preventing these pointless murders.
I also disagree that hypocrisy plays a role in wanting the community to speak out. It’s no skin off anyone else’s nose if these people are caught or not because they’re only hurting the black community, of which they are a member. We want justice for our fallen love ones and that is why communities should speak out against these people who think murder is ok, that taking lives is acceptable. The only people that are harmed by not speaking out, is our community because these killers are still at large and at liberty to do it again to someone else's son, brother, husband, father…..

Prince William goes clubbing and the Met can find 16 officers to stand outside. He is also accompanied by an armed protection officer. Either we strive for social egalitarianism or revert back to elitism and the doffing of the cap. The police are hypocrites along with the teaching authorities but right at the top is a rotten govt. system that seems to want chaos in the black community in order to advance a political ideology and message. That message is that blacks are out of self control and we have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Hypocrisy. You teach these youths, legislate against fathers in family life, tax people out of existence and then blame them for their predicament. In future my kids will only party with the heir to the throne......that should solve the problem.

Are we now expecting the Police Force to give each of our children 16 officers when they decide to go out? I’m in no way a fan of the system either but issuing blame to everyone but ourselves isn't going to solve the problem. Yes the Government is partly to blame, but so are we. Fathers are absent without the help of the government, some; in fact, many just sew their seeds in a number of different places and then go on their merry way. I don't see how the government can be blamed for that. If everyone else is at fault, why isn't the whole country doing to each other what some young men in the black community are doing? And why aren't ALL black people the same as these boys? If we're going to lay the blame on others, then surely our forefathers who came to this country should have been up to what our young people are up to and more. They had it a whole lot worse than we can ever imagine. My school wasn't great, but I can read and write, I have qualifications, and I hold down a job. The difference between these boys and me is that I’m prepared to work for what I have. Some kids today expect it to be dropped into their laps and when it isn’t they make the decision to come and take yours. I had the same chances and education as these kids. In fact, they've probably had it a lot easier than I did. What makes these boys so different? Excuses. Excuses. They'll wear out in time and we will come to a point when NO ONE will listen, even to those to truly deserve to be heard.

String the hood rats up that did this!!!!

I find RD very eloquent and I agree with his/her sensible and heartfelt comments. Especially with regards to kids who are in my opinion these days unafraid of any adults. This is due to the fact that they are aware teachers cannot really do anything, they can backchat without fear and even divorce their parents if they want. I also agree and this is definitely not a colour issue that the majority of kids now are "I want". They don't even have manners but surely some of that must be down to parental or lack of guidance? You rarely hear "Please or Thank you" anymore and I am shocked when I do.

Yes also because of lack of time due to long working hours a lot of single parents throw money or expensive gifts at their kids. This is a replacement for the attention that they really need and are not getting.

I suspect a lot of the time with the young boys and I'm not saying it is just boys as there are girl gangs too, there is not a strong role model for them to look up to.

I think excluding those evil parents that are abusive in all kinds of ways, there needs to be a review of how we as a society are bringing up the next generations.

Will we end up like "Lord of the Flies" in a few decades?

This is scary as the same day i was there and i only left about 1 hour before because my friend was so hungry! I cant imagine what id be like now if i had stayed that bit longer!

'Stop the guns'.....you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. I am not buck passing, merely stating the facts as to why certain sectors of the black community are in the position that they are in. It is undisputable that proportionately blacks are jailed, expelled from schools, admitted to mental institutions, unemployed, unemployable, victims of crime more than any other sector of society. Of course there should be self responsibility but we have a social system that is supposed to help and assist those who need help to help themselves. We are witnessing a breakdown in social norms in real time. The problems affecting the black community will eventually overspill. Perhaps then the authorities will look at their failed social policies and implement radical reforms that actually supports family, teaches respect and promotes ambition. The fact that our parents had it 'tougher' when they came here is immaterial. This is the here and now and the problems affecting us needs dealing with here and now.

RD, I completely understand the point you are making and I even agree with you, to a level. However, despite the indisputable facts it’s still not the whole of the black community responsible for our problems. Why? Why aren’t we all doing what these kids are doing? We are ALL affected by these indisputable facts. Not just them. I can’t help but have a number of questions regarding them. Are these high proportion of black people in prison there because of their colour or because they have committed crimes where the punishment is a custodial sentence? Are those expelled from school expelled because of their colour or because they cannot operate within the boundaries of school rules? Are people institutionalised because of their colour or because they are a danger to themselves and/or others? Are they unemployed because of their colour or because they don’t want a job? Or don’t have the required skills/experience? In my opinion, unemployment is a fact of our society and it has been for a long time regardless of skin colour. The use of the word 'unemployable’ implies that there is something about them which means they cannot get a job; it says that it is they who are unemployable as opposed to people not wanting to employ them. Victims of crime again is a fact of our society (although I wish it wasn’t). But a lot of those crimes against black people are committed by whose hands? The very story that sparked our discussion is that of a young Black boy who had everything to live for being murdered by another young Black boy. Please don’t misunderstand what I’m saying; there are many black victims of crimes that aren’t caused by other black people. I know that, but there are a lot that are black on black which led to the creation of Operation Trident here in London and others elsewhere. The social system that is in place is at fault, yes. We all know that. But we are all under that same social system that you are blaming for these wayward few. All citizens are entitled to benefits, use of the NHS and an abundance of helplines which are all designed to help anyone who needs it Look how much money has been ploughed into Peckham to make it better for all and still, a young man (again with everything to live for) was shot dead in his bed , another young man stabbed to death and a forty year old was shot dead, all on the same weekend, all in this rejuvenated area. What more can the authorities do apart from catch the perpetrators and lock them up? I completely and totally agree that we are witnessing a break down in social norms and it makes me sick to my stomach, but how did you and I learn to live within these social norms? How did the majority of the black community learn? We are under the same authorities as these kids. Will it overspill to the degree that it affects our community? I don’t know that it will. The gun culture within the black community has been going on for decades in America and it hasn’t overspilled, at least not to the same level, no where near. Again I am not sure that it’s the authorities’ job to teach our children respect. I may be wrong. I was taught that by my parents. I will teach my children respect, I will teach them about ambition, I will teach them about loving their brothers and sisters, I will teach them about working hard for what they want, I will teach them about staying away from crime and prison, I will teach them about the devastation caused by guns. I will teach them everything I was taught. I won’t be leaving it up to the authorities to do on my behalf; I’d be asking for trouble if I did. I disagree that what our parents went through is immaterial. If any one group of people were held back, not employed, falsely accused and treated as second class citizens it was them more than our generation or the next and they didn’t resort to killing each other. I believe we have a lot to learn from them and their experiences. Yes the problems are here and now but most of our learning is achieved at the hands of history. Yes our problems need dealing with now, but how, when even you and I cannot agree about the cause? And without knowing the cause can we ever find an answer? I simply cannot blame just one party because if it were the fault of one section, then we’d all be doing it, wouldn’t we?

Black people should learn to take responsibility for their own actions, im sick to death of the way they blame the govt for their own personal problems. It would help if they had fathers who stick around - WHY is it that black women openly take lots of lovers, have lots of babies by different fathers and then expects the state to take care of them? Its the lack of family in the black community that has lead to this, they dont respect any authority because they never had any in their ives. The only way this could stop now is if black people wanted to stop it.
As far as im concerned Peckham, Brixton and Hackney are all ghetto areas that are festering because the majority of people living there dont want to work an honest days work for their living, most preferring to make a quick buck stealing, mugging, raping and shooting over drug deals.
Alot of people in London think this but are too PC to say anything.
The blacks make everything a racial issue, i was on the bus and some black kids were terrorising everyone and abusing everyone including me, when i went to complain to the conductor he was black too, and just looked at me and refused to do anything saying IN HIS OWN EXACT WORDS 'YOU LOT ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO KEEP DOWN THE BLACK MAN'
Enuff said

Londongirl, I couldn't have put it any better if I'd tried. You hit the nail on the head.