Bromley Police without "fair share" of PCSOs (From This Is Local London)

What worries me more is the savage cuts that are being inflicted on the police by the Conservative government and the Conservative Mayor of London.

Vote Ken in May, he introduced and always fully supported police safer neighbourhoods teams.

Red Ken aint got no chance bruv.

Carlos the Argie loving immigrant fer me mates.

THankyou.

Big Will Johnson wrote:
What worries me more is the savage cuts that are being inflicted on the police by the Conservative government and the Conservative Mayor of London.

Vote Ken in May, he introduced and always fully supported police safer neighbourhoods teams.

Big Bill Johnson has a slightly distorted view of history. Ken Livingston had nothing to do with introducing PCSOs. That was David Blunkett - "which is why they used to be called Blunkett's bobbies".

I suppose it is really hard to find anything positive to say about Livingston so making up stories may be forgiven.

Big Will Johnson wrote:
What worries me more is the savage cuts that are being inflicted on the police by the Conservative government and the Conservative Mayor of London.

Vote Ken in May, he introduced and always fully supported police safer neighbourhoods teams.

Vote ken in?

Have you any idea what he plans to do with London? Promising to promote any sort of faith or belief will cause tension between groups WILL create divides in society.

Clearly what he wants.

Oh no,not enough PCSO's! How will we cope? Probably the same as we coped before they were invented 7 or 8 years ago.
Plasticfantastic over to you...

jaded1 wrote:
Oh no,not enough PCSO's! How will we cope? Probably the same as we coped before they were invented 7 or 8 years ago.
Plasticfantastic over to you...

I knew there would be some derogatory comment, and I won't go into any great detail due to operational reasons and restrictions on what we can and cannot say on a public forum but the report is right, our numbers have been decimated. The quote about what PCSOs do is a standard quote put out by the government at the time the rule was introduced in 2002, the role has evolved hugely, we all do far far much more than we were ever expected to. Any regular visitor to Bromley Town Centre will have noticed that. The quote from the Daily Hate Mail some time ago was that PCSOs solve on average 1 crime every six years. To start with, we are not there to solve crime, having said that, I personally have caught street robbers, shoplifters, thieves, burglars and even murder suspects. If I see a crime happenning, I will intervene, I will do my utmost to stop it and catch the suspect as well as being there to stop it happening in the first place. Far outside what my role was ever meant to be. We are the ones who patrol the streets on foot, we are the face of the police that you see every day, and although the world didn't come to an end before us, the public would certainly miss us if we weren't there.

As it is now our numbers are depleted. Hopefully by the autumn we will be back up to strength.

plasticfantastic wrote:

jaded1 wrote: Oh no,not enough PCSO's! How will we cope? Probably the same as we coped before they were invented 7 or 8 years ago. Plasticfantastic over to you...

I knew there would be some derogatory comment, and I won't go into any great detail due to operational reasons and restrictions on what we can and cannot say on a public forum but the report is right, our numbers have been decimated. The quote about what PCSOs do is a standard quote put out by the government at the time the rule was introduced in 2002, the role has evolved hugely, we all do far far much more than we were ever expected to. Any regular visitor to Bromley Town Centre will have noticed that. The quote from the Daily Hate Mail some time ago was that PCSOs solve on average 1 crime every six years. To start with, we are not there to solve crime, having said that, I personally have caught street robbers, shoplifters, thieves, burglars and even murder suspects. If I see a crime happenning, I will intervene, I will do my utmost to stop it and catch the suspect as well as being there to stop it happening in the first place. Far outside what my role was ever meant to be. We are the ones who patrol the streets on foot, we are the face of the police that you see every day, and although the world didn't come to an end before us, the public would certainly miss us if we weren't there. As it is now our numbers are depleted. Hopefully by the autumn we will be back up to strength.

I am concerned less about Bromley town centre, and more about the rest of the borough. What about Orpington, Beckenham, or Penge?

I thought you would be lurking here PF.
My opinion of PCSO's is that they are an unnecessary extra.That is not to say some of you are good workers,I work with a few good ones right now.Most of the more capable ones have now joined the police which is a good step up for them.

jaded1 wrote:
I thought you would be lurking here PF.
My opinion of PCSO's is that they are an unnecessary extra.That is not to say some of you are good workers,I work with a few good ones right now.Most of the more capable ones have now joined the police which is a good step up for them.

I'm assuming jaded that you are a Police Officer. We are not an unnecessary extra at all. When do police officers walk the streets, when do they engage with the public, when do they come across crimes happening in front of them, when do they prevent them happening, when do they reassure the public. That's what we do, we are the human face of the police force, and trust me, there is nothing plastic about us.

Your comment about the goods ones have all become police officers is nonense. I am very very good at my job, and I do not want to be a police officer. I know I make a difference. There are some crap ones who shall remain nameless, but there are equally some really crap police officers too.

goldenbroomboy wrote:

plasticfantastic wrote:

jaded1 wrote: Oh no,not enough PCSO's! How will we cope? Probably the same as we coped before they were invented 7 or 8 years ago. Plasticfantastic over to you...

I knew there would be some derogatory comment, and I won't go into any great detail due to operational reasons and restrictions on what we can and cannot say on a public forum but the report is right, our numbers have been decimated. The quote about what PCSOs do is a standard quote put out by the government at the time the rule was introduced in 2002, the role has evolved hugely, we all do far far much more than we were ever expected to. Any regular visitor to Bromley Town Centre will have noticed that. The quote from the Daily Hate Mail some time ago was that PCSOs solve on average 1 crime every six years. To start with, we are not there to solve crime, having said that, I personally have caught street robbers, shoplifters, thieves, burglars and even murder suspects. If I see a crime happenning, I will intervene, I will do my utmost to stop it and catch the suspect as well as being there to stop it happening in the first place. Far outside what my role was ever meant to be. We are the ones who patrol the streets on foot, we are the face of the police that you see every day, and although the world didn't come to an end before us, the public would certainly miss us if we weren't there. As it is now our numbers are depleted. Hopefully by the autumn we will be back up to strength.

I am concerned less about Bromley town centre, and more about the rest of the borough. What about Orpington, Beckenham, or Penge?

Every ward has a Safer Neighbourhood Team, many of whom have their PCSO numbers depleted due to most moving on to become police officers. I for one, do not want to be a police officer. I love my job, I make a difference. The Met didn't realise that so many would want to move on, but unfortunately they originally sold the role by saying it was a stepping stone, therefore the vast majority applied as soon as internal recruitment opened. A recruitment drive is in place now, so hopefully by around August time, the numbers will be back up again. Some fresh blood will be good. Those of us experienced officers that are left will be the ones that do the "street duties" for the new ones. I've done it before, having newbies under my wing, I enjoyed it, and will volunteer to do it again.

Rest assured the SNT is there for you, if you have a problem, call them, stop them in the street, they are there to help you.

plasticfantastic wrote:

jaded1 wrote:
I thought you would be lurking here PF.
My opinion of PCSO's is that they are an unnecessary extra.That is not to say some of you are good workers,I work with a few good ones right now.Most of the more capable ones have now joined the police which is a good step up for them.

I'm assuming jaded that you are a Police Officer. We are not an unnecessary extra at all. When do police officers walk the streets, when do they engage with the public, when do they come across crimes happening in front of them, when do they prevent them happening, when do they reassure the public. That's what we do, we are the human face of the police force, and trust me, there is nothing plastic about us.

Your comment about the goods ones have all become police officers is nonense. I am very very good at my job, and I do not want to be a police officer. I know I make a difference. There are some crap ones who shall remain nameless, but there are equally some really crap police officers too.

You assume correctly PF I am a PC.
My original point a few posts ago was that your job was only invented 7 or 8 years ago and the world still turned before then.If PCSO's no longer existed it wouldn't be the end of the world.
Also we have to consider the cost,that's another argument.

What a complete buffoon Councillor Tim Stevens is, whining about a few PCSOs here and there.

Everyone knows that this little man's whines are a complete red herring. Let's have some truth here, Councillor Stevens.

The Police would be able to cope with fewer PCSOs (and indeed dare I say it officers) if the Judges and Magistrates sentenced criminals to appropriate terms of imprisonment, thus putting a stop to their offending for a long while.

Our Judges and Magistrates - which I believe include Councillor Stevens himself amongst their number - constantly ignore sentencing guidelines and give sentences that are absolutely no deterrant to the criminals - in fact they give them the green light that it's OK to carry on committing crime. Pathetic sanctions like picking up leaves are not a deterrent to yobbery.

The action that needs to be taken to get this country back on the right track is for the discretionary powers that you Magistrates and Judges have to be removed entirely. There should be a mandatory sentence for each crime - and probation should be abolished totally. We should have truth in sentencing. If you commit a crime and the sentence is ten years, you should serve ten years and not a day less. There should be no 'time off for good behaviour', instead there should be an increase in sentence for bad behaviour.

Probation was developed to scale back the jail population and sponsor rehabilitation, but it has been shown that recidivism among those released on probation is no different than those who get out of prison after serving a full sentence. There are people who are genuinely a threat to society and society has every right to protect itself from them.

Judges and Magistrates need to be accountable. If the police or social services fail to deal with someone who goes on to kill there would quite rightly be serious repercussions. But time and again we have seen Judges and Magistrates do this without comeback. And when this is challenged they throw up their hands in horror and look with disdain upon those who call for them to be reprimanded or removed from the bench.

There's one very glaring weakness in the criminal justice system - our judges and magistrates.

Of course it wouldn't be the end of the world. We made do without cars before they were invented, and computers, shall I go on?

I hope you are not one of those police officers that when I hold a door open for you in the nick, you walk through ignoring my very existence,or when I say good morning, you don't even look at me, and completely ignore me!!

Unfortunately there are far too many coppers who do behave like that, and many who have got to know myself and my team and have openly said, "I really didn't know what you lot did, but you are very proactive" and all of a sudden they respect us, and know what a good job we do.

Most PCs don't even know our powers, how are the public even meant to know when our colleagues haven't got a clue.

Do not under-estimate us, one day it might be me, or one of my blue shirt wearing colleagues that just happens to be there to save your arse!!!

P.C.S.O. are clearly an "optional Extra" in today's policing.
With no rank structure, no pay increase for years, they would be stupid not to try and join the force as a P.C.
Clearly the police will not recruit the idiots I see walking around, wearing very ill fitting uniforms, that a St. Johns Ambulance staff wouldn't wear, and who wouldn't say boo to mouse.
A PCSO "detaining" robbers burglars, shoplifters, and murderers? I've never heard so much rubbish! If you are detaining all these people, then you are doing the job of a police officer, why not apply, and become a Police Officer?
Why do the same job for less money, and wear that stupid uniform that school kids to adults laugh at?
In a few years time when the role of the PCSO has increased the rank of Constable will be phased out, and he Goverment have achieved their aim of policing on the cheap.

Oops that should read 'the Goverment', that'll teach me to type on a phone!!

Of course we all know you do mean "the goverNment"


THanK You

i spoke to a pcso yest who could not pronounce his "Rs" is that allowed?

englishman333 wrote:
i spoke to a pcso yest who could not pronounce his "Rs" is that allowed?

Didn't stop owl wossy on the BBC he can't do his 'r`s' either must be those four puffs on the owl joanna!!! LOL ;)

I like them French fried potaters, wiv mustard.

PF (or shall I call you Colin?)-I get on very well with my PCSO chums at my station.I have no problem with them personally,they are nice people.It is the ROLE that is the problem.

"I know a fat old policeman
He's always on our street.
A fat and jolly red-faced man
He really is a treat.

He's too kind for a policeman
He's never known to frown.
And everybody says
He is the happiest man in town!.

He laughs upon point duty
He laughs upon his beat.
He laughs at everybody
When he's walking in the street.

He never can stop laughing
He says he's never tried.
But once he did arrest a man
And laughed until he cried!

Oh ho ho ho ho ho ho. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho. Ha ha ha ha ha ha."

Sorry I couldn't resist, I was reading the story and this very old song from my childhood came flooding back to me.

jaded1 wrote:
PF (or shall I call you Colin?)-I get on very well with my PCSO chums at my station.I have no problem with them personally,they are nice people.It is the ROLE that is the problem.

I wonder if they know that you feel like that about the good job that they do. What's your problem with the role, do you actually know what a PCSO really does?

hard hit tax payer wrote:
P.C.S.O. are clearly an "optional Extra" in today's policing.
With no rank structure, no pay increase for years, they would be stupid not to try and join the force as a P.C.
Clearly the police will not recruit the idiots I see walking around, wearing very ill fitting uniforms, that a St. Johns Ambulance staff wouldn't wear, and who wouldn't say boo to mouse.
A PCSO "detaining" robbers burglars, shoplifters, and murderers? I've never heard so much rubbish! If you are detaining all these people, then you are doing the job of a police officer, why not apply, and become a Police Officer?
Why do the same job for less money, and wear that stupid uniform that school kids to adults laugh at?
In a few years time when the role of the PCSO has increased the rank of Constable will be phased out, and he Goverment have achieved their aim of policing on the cheap.

An optional extra? If only you realised the truth. Who do you see patrolling the streets nowadays?

There is no rank structure, that is quite correct although some boroughs do have supervisor PCSOs which personally I don't agree with. A supervisor is your Sergeant, there should not be another one. I am on a pay freeze the same as police officers, although I am still getting my progression pay once a year. What is stupid about not wanting to be a police officer? The two jobs do cross and merge, and I'm afraid you saying what I mentioned being rubbish shows the publics ignorance of what we actually do. Yes, I often do the job of a police officer, so do all my colleagues. As for the uniform, it's doesn't differ that much a police officers. What is ill-fitting about it? I don't know what contact you have had with my colleagues, but when that mouse turns into a rat and tries to rob you, I hope the PCSO who might be nearby doesn't know what you think of him when he rushes to your aid.

ROFL

Dr Lester Piggott wrote:
"I know a fat old policeman
He's always on our street.
A fat and jolly red-faced man
He really is a treat.

He's too kind for a policeman
He's never known to frown.
And everybody says
He is the happiest man in town!.

He laughs upon point duty
He laughs upon his beat.
He laughs at everybody
When he's walking in the street.

He never can stop laughing
He says he's never tried.
But once he did arrest a man
And laughed until he cried!

Oh ho ho ho ho ho ho. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Ho ho ho ho ho ho ho. Ha ha ha ha ha ha."

Sorry I couldn't resist, I was reading the story and this very old song from my childhood came flooding back to me.

Classic!

Did you give him half a crown?

plasticfantastic,
You clearly have a different view of the word "Patrolling" to me. Patrolling to me means stopping, searching, disturbing villians routine, and even annoying and getting in the face of villains. Now where would a PCSO get his or her power to do this. Most powers to stop, search are given to a Police OFFICER, not a wanna be police officer.

Maybe my view of PCSO's is slightly tainted by what I have seen, basically wandering around in twos talking on their mobiles, hands in pockets, hats balanced on the back of their heads, and then wandering in to the local supermarkets to buy their lunch.

I have never seen, or heard of a PCSO detaining a robber, burglar, shoplifter, or a murderer.

Maybe the ones round my area give you all a bad name.
Given the option, I'd rather see two uniformed constables, for every three PCSO's I see wandering down my road.

No handymanchris I never, but I can remember as a raggerty ar sed kid getting a clump around the ear from a fat old copper on a bicycle. It was near the Bridge House public house on Sevenoaks Way. Me and some friends ran across the road between vehicles. He gave us a right telling off. I can still recall his beery breath too. A much happier time though. I sure dont envy a copper or PCSO now.

hard hit tax payer wrote:
plasticfantastic,
You clearly have a different view of the word "Patrolling" to me. Patrolling to me means stopping, searching, disturbing villians routine, and even annoying and getting in the face of villains. Now where would a PCSO get his or her power to do this. Most powers to stop, search are given to a Police OFFICER, not a wanna be police officer.

Maybe my view of PCSO's is slightly tainted by what I have seen, basically wandering around in twos talking on their mobiles, hands in pockets, hats balanced on the back of their heads, and then wandering in to the local supermarkets to buy their lunch.

I have never seen, or heard of a PCSO detaining a robber, burglar, shoplifter, or a murderer.

Maybe the ones round my area give you all a bad name.
Given the option, I'd rather see two uniformed constables, for every three PCSO's I see wandering down my road.

I do not have the power of search "yet", but when I am patrolling on a daily basis I stop, detain, disturb and get in the faces of "villains" as you put them. I literally do this every day!

As for powers, I suggest that you ask one of your local PCSOs to show you their designation card, it lists all our powers. We do of course have the same powers as a member of the public too. Please don't use the term wannabee, because I don't wannabee.

As for your comment about hands in pockets etc, have you seen a police car parked outside a kebab shop ever?? What is wrong with going into a supermarket to buy lunch, we are human, we have to eat. A lot of PCSOs are tasked to an area and told to have their refs on the ground, not to come back to their base.

Do not under-estimate what PCSOs do for your area, we are not all lazy wannabees, don't believe everything that you read in the Daily Hate Mail.

I think it is unfair to give the pcso's stick as they do get involved and do help the police.You get good and bad in all jobs its how it is in life.
I have the pleasure of working with both pcso's and police officers and find both groups professional in their approach.

Pcso's gather valuable intelligence when they are out and about even though it may not be sen as important as the police officers flying around in cars.Both do valuable jobs.

As for the person who seems to think pcso's dont restrain people, well they do using the powers of the law you or i can use legally.

How about the pcso's who tackled the stanley knife attacker in hammersmith who slashed an officers throat ? He sustained injuries of his own trying to restrain the attacker.

http://www.ealingtod
ay.co.uk/default.asp
?section=info&page=c
oncrime014.htm

I know people who were at this incident and can confirm this is the truest account ive read in the papers.A tfl ticket inspector led the guy off a bus at a police and tfl ticket inspecting exercise.The guy just slashed out at the police when they discovered he was wanted by them.

In my opinion anyone who is willing to tackle someone slashing out with a knife to prevent others getting hurt is the person i want out there on the street.Most people would go into shock in an incident like and do nothing so fair play to them.

Well said that man.

I have used force to detain many many times, when it is necessary. I have a very high amount of intelligence gathered and my intelligence reports have added to, and been the key to taking people off the streets.

People do feel safer with me being there, as many people have told me.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again, don't believe the tosh you read in the papers!

I am proud that I do a good job, I love my job and will continue to do it to the best of my ability. Snipes by the press and certain MoPs is just something that comes with the territory.

Not only is the role of PCSO questionable but also how they are deployed.

In my experience you never see a PCSO alone. They patrol(?) in pairs and when there is an interesting job on they congregate like moths to a flame. Worse that this though is that the Police when they deem it necessary use staff from SNT’s as a resource anywhere in the Borough, Division or Force area ignoring the very reason why SNT’s were introduced.

Ask yourself which would you prefer - 2 PCSOs walking the beat or a single Police Officer doing the same beat? Of course you want the most effective deterrent and that would be the Police Officer. Roughly speaking the cost of 2 PCSO's is equivalent to the cost of a single PC. Dump the PCSO's and replace them with half the number of PCs who can actually enforce the law.

Also let local Authorities claw back funding from the Police for Safer Neighbourhood Teams (LA's fund 50% of SNT's) and redirect that money into establishing their own high visibility Community Warden roles that stay working on their designated patch. At least that way you guarantee that the Police do not ‘borrow’ staff from Safer Neighbourhood Teams at the drop of a hat and deploy them miles off of their ground.