DEBDEN: Street brawl leaves four injured
6:22pm Saturday 6th February 2010 in News By Carl Brown
FOUR teenagers were taken to hospital following a vicious street fight near Debden Tube station.
The rush-hour brawl between two groups took place outside Sainsbury's shortly after 5.30pm.
Two 17-year-olds, from East Ham and Millwall, and two 16-year-olds from Newham and Poplar, were all taken to Whipps Cross Hospital, in Leytonstone.
They had all been struck by weapons during the fight and were treated for head, arm and facial injuries before being discharged.
Although the brawl happened on Thursday, Essex Police have only this afternoon made details of the fight public.
Det Sgt Dan Barber, investigating officer, said: “We know that a large group of men were seen running away from the scene.
“They were in their late teens and early 20s and we would like to identify them, so any commuters or motorists who were in the area of Chigwell Lane or Torrington Drive at the time would be key witnesses.”
Anybody with information should call Harlow police station on 0300 333 44 44.
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Comments(49)
Debdenite
says...
12:13pm Sun 7 Feb 10
simonwesker
says...
7:00pm Sun 7 Feb 10
Debdenite
says...
7:10pm Sun 7 Feb 10
simonwesker wrote:Yes, cos the only violent people are black and white kids are never violent. Typical racist BNP nonsense.
Violent youth crime is completely out of control in the UK, was it such a good idea to abolish the borstal system? It's highly likely that these hooligans were in Debden because of the new college policy of working with inner city youth, it does not take a complete idiot to see the amount of mutli racial students from North and East London now walking around Debden and the subequent increase in crime around the station as a result.
loughtonkid
says...
8:24pm Sun 7 Feb 10
Having a large amount of people from east London is bound to bring problems. People from east London have always had a bad reputation. When there was a majority of white people in east london, there were problems, when there were lots of Jewish people in east London, there were problems, and its the same today were arond 80% of east londoners are non-white.
Simonwesker is merely highlighting the TRUTH. EFC has started letting in many east Londoners, which has resulted in crime rates soaring!!
Thats the problem with Britain, were too afraid to tell the TRUTH unless it OFFENDS someone!
Debdenite
says...
8:36pm Sun 7 Feb 10
Generalising about "mutli racial students" and "subequent increase in crime." It is nothing but racist fear-mongering designed to make non-white people unwelcome in Loughton, even if they are law-abiding. The police have said time and again that most crime in the area is caused by people living in the area.
ConcernedofLoughton
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9:34pm Sun 7 Feb 10
simonwesker
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2:35am Mon 8 Feb 10
Debdenite
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7:23am Mon 8 Feb 10
w-evr
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7:32am Mon 8 Feb 10
ConcernedofLoughton
says...
7:36am Mon 8 Feb 10
Debdenite wrote:Because its Debden, sadly every issue seems to head straight for the race debate, usually directed there by the local BNP who seem to blame all the worlds ills on non-white folk. In this case i agree that race is totally irrelevant.
Why bring up the issue of race at all?
w-evr
says...
7:57am Mon 8 Feb 10
The LRA took over advising the college, it has had a councillor voted in and the crime has risen dramatically since. The shoplifting and other anti social crime does always seem to involve the college somewhere along the line.
You don't have to bring in race to the equation, people draw their own conclusions themselves, however much the regular anti BNP activists on here try to spin it.
The college is a problem, primarily for residents its the new design of the building that has now bought traffic chaos in the morning, Two roundabouts two crossings and an entrance directly on to them is a recipe for chaos, add to it the teenage urge to press the crossing button once crossed (all races included) just adds to the slowing down of the traffic.
Teenagers do fight, its just that now with there being so many youths from out of the area at the college its highly likely to have an adverse effect on the perception by the locals.
The attitude that is portrayed in defence of the college is the main reason for anti college sentiment, most people assume that the college should recognise real issues and address them for the well being of the surrounding area, the college is supposed to be there for our youth to receive further education, its meant to serve us, not us bend over backwards for the college, Integration of any community will only happen when there is a balance on both sides with give and take. You cant tell people to accept something. The youth in this area have nothing.
The college has pretty much drawn up its view of its desired intake and most local kids go elsewhere.
How can you not expect some form of resentment. Debdenite, (QB)the BNP has as I am sure you are aware not made a big issue about the college for a while, The LRA were supposed to be sorting the problems out. "They needed a fair crack at the whip"They haven't sorted it out, its getting worse.
A candle lit parade, a church service, some more coffee shops and looking at a farmers market will not tackle serious crime in the Broadway.
Realistic evaluations and proper policing might work, but it would be aided by the college treating the area with respect to gain the support of the locals.
The BNP has been excluded from committees regarding the Broadway so this one lays directly at the feet of the liberals running the show!
Debdenite
says...
8:27am Mon 8 Feb 10
How on earth is there a causal relationship between a parish councillor being elected a eight weeks ago and increased crime? And what evidence do you have that crime has increased? Certainly, your anecdotal evidence, which is intended to do down Debden, does not fit with what the police are saying: http://www.essex.pol
ice.uk/my_neighbourh
ood/epping_forest_di
strict/debden/debden
-6.aspx According to police statistics, the number of reported crimes in Debden fell from 53 in November to 40 in December, so since an LRA councillor was elected in Broadway crime has dropped by nearly a quarter! The number of violent crimes fell 45% from 11 to six and incidents of anti-social behaviour fell 47% from 45 to 24. Of course, there is no causal link between falling rates of crime and the election of an LRA councillor. But if you want to play such a nonsensical game, at least get your facts right, Paul!
Debdenite
says...
8:47am Mon 8 Feb 10
Where was the BNP when the college indicated it was dropping A-level courses? As I said before, there was a cross-party effort to get EFC to keep A-levels in order to improve opportunities for local young people, but the BNP said nothing, perhaps because it was not interested as the issue was not race-related. BNP propaganda has been solely focused on the race of the students going to EFC in an effort to portray all non-white people as 'outsiders' and troublemakers. BNP councillors have done little to address the issue of course quality, which is the real reason why local young people don't attend. Young people in Debden don't care about the race of their fellow students, it does not scare or unsettle them to be with people of different ethnic or religious backgrounds. They want, and deserve, a good education and in that respect EFC is failing badly.
Morris Hickey
says...
10:45am Mon 8 Feb 10
loughtonkid wrote:Total semi-literate rubbish. When the Debden Estate was built it was populated entirely by people leaving poor housing conditions in the East End. So the roots of the Estate are firmly grounded in London's East End.
How is that RACIST what simonwesker said?? Having a large amount of people from east London is bound to bring problems. People from east London have always had a bad reputation. When there was a majority of white people in east london, there were problems, when there were lots of Jewish people in east London, there were problems, and its the same today were arond 80% of east londoners are non-white. Simonwesker is merely highlighting the TRUTH. EFC has started letting in many east Londoners, which has resulted in crime rates soaring!! Thats the problem with Britain, were too afraid to tell the TRUTH unless it OFFENDS someone!
Debdenite
says...
11:37am Mon 8 Feb 10
simonwesker
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3:50pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2
says...
4:45pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2
says...
4:52pm Mon 8 Feb 10
simonwesker
says...
5:41pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2
says...
5:54pm Mon 8 Feb 10
Debdenite
says...
6:34pm Mon 8 Feb 10
simonwesker wrote:As you don't live in Loughton, you won't know that the BNP have been attempting to stir up hatred of black students by associating them with all crime in the area, whether or not it has anything to do with the college. They are inciting racial hatred for their own political ends.
how does this even involve the BNP or anything racist? This is only about some local lads having a laugh.
Debdenite
says...
6:36pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2 wrote:I have an opinion and I will express it. I don't have to stand for election to assert my opposition to an extremist group.
Debdenite you are bonkers, you cant get through a comment without anti bnp comments, whats the matter with you. If you feel that strong why dont you stand against them in the elections and put your money where your mouth is.
mr resident2
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6:58pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2
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7:00pm Mon 8 Feb 10
Debdenite
says...
7:03pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2 wrote:Nonsense about how "mutli racial students" cause increases in crime is bog standard BNP propaganda. The BNP is obsessed with bashing mixed race families like mine and the result is that my wife and son are faced with racist abuse in the street in Debden. So, yes, I do have a problem with them and I'll speak out against them. You seem to have a problem with me expressing any opposition to racists.
Now go back and read your postings. They don’t really make sense do they. Anyone who has a different view to you, you condemn as **** BNP. You are obsessed with them arent you?
mr resident2
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7:08pm Mon 8 Feb 10
Debdenite
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7:13pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2 wrote:I outed Paul Morris, the local BNP organiser, on these comments and I pointed out that associating crime with race was BNP nonsense. That's about it. I haven't responded to you before, so no need to throw your toys out of the pram.
Not at all, but i dont go around classing everyone who takes an opposite stance to my views as BNP like you do. You have done it on several posts, and you have done it to me. You are wrong in doing that, and it is rude.
mr resident2
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7:16pm Mon 8 Feb 10
agentzigzag
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8:32pm Mon 8 Feb 10
This was not a gang issue between two groups of students, this was not 'high jinks' and students messing around - this was a vicious attack.
Debdenite
says...
11:12pm Mon 8 Feb 10
mr resident2 wrote:Poor family!
Not me, and you have before. I am now going to spend the rest of the evening with my family and will be on again tomorrow to continue this Debdenite. I have good use for my time unlike some.
w-evr
says...
7:07am Tue 9 Feb 10
You have very valid points on most items, and have expressed many views about your family and others.
No one has criticised your family yet you have started making cheap remarks about others. To far mate!
Every body has a point of view and are equally entitled to theirs as you are yours.
The BNP has gone through the proper channels and been elected around here, We can have an opinion, its legal. The Anti-bnp lobby has never stood for any election (officially) why not start one? its your right, but again this is the wrong forum for that challenge.(in my opinion) whether you like it or agree with it or not the BNP has councillors around here and therefore you might find that some people do agree with them, they dont need the usual smears every time they might use the word BNP, its all been said and leafleted around the estate for years.
Challenge it at the ballot box as is customary.
Reading these pages over the years you and a few others are regular bloggers and have some good points, I actually look forward to seeing you point of view on certain topics, Dont end up loosing credibility by banging on with the same old stuff time after time.
You are going to end up looking a bit obsessive here.
Its with that sentiment that I will not look further at this thread.
Review your postings mate, please.
Debdenite
says...
10:19am Tue 9 Feb 10
You are "backing off"! Don't make me laugh. You have run a hateful blog that has slandered and personally attacked councillors of other parties as well as entire ethnic and religious groups. Nearly every day you have sought to traduce and vilify and cause divisions. We get your leaflets through our door spewing hate against minorities. Your party directly attacks people like me simply because you hate our law-abiding lifestyle, who we marry and the colour and religion of our kids - don't you think there would be a backlash from those you hate? You and your party is obsessive about other people's choices in life and want to interfere in our personal lives to advance your racial purity claptrap. Then you get hysterical about criticism of your party and try to close down discussion by saying this is the "wrong forum". Do you seriously expect me to shut up in the face of your poisonous propaganda? I'll say what I like where I like and I don't have to stand for election to express an opinion. You don't run this website and you don't run this country, thankfully.
And I didn't make any comment about anyone's family. What are you on about?
loughtonkid
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4:55pm Tue 9 Feb 10
Debdenite
says...
5:50pm Tue 9 Feb 10
loughtonkid wrote:Did you report it to the police?
I would just like to talk about my nice experience of Epping Forest College 'students'. I was on the top deck of the 20 today, when a group of the students started throwing beer cans at me, and then one of then came up to me and **** in my face! Nice. And I know they were from EFC as they were talking about their classes.
JuliaM
says...
10:14pm Tue 9 Feb 10
Neither does anyone else.
Most of us are capable of making our point without hysterics or cheap shots at the family of the people who have bested them in online argument, though.
"And I didn't make any comment about anyone's family. What are you on about?"
You didn't make the sarcastic comment at 11:12am on Monday then? Is someone impersonating you?
Debdenite
says...
10:42am Wed 10 Feb 10
JuliaM wrote:That was hardly an attack on that angry man's family! I said "poor family" because they'd have to put up with him for the rest of the evening. And it was said tongue in cheek, but that obviously passed you by. Claiming that comment was an attack on a family is a pretty desperate attempt to deflect my argument because no-one wants to engage with it. The fact is that the BNP's activism in this town is intended to vilify and intimidate members of ethnic minorities in order to win votes. College students are easy prey for them. But the BNP's local organiser Paul Morris (writer under the w-ver username) doesn't think this is the 'right forum', ie he wants to extinguish public criticism. I'll say what the hell I like, where I like and when I like. If it is "false, abusive or malicious" then you are entitled to report me to the site managers.
Debdenite: "I'll say what I like where I like and I don't have to stand for election to express an opinion."
Neither does anyone else.
Most of us are capable of making our point without hysterics or cheap shots at the family of the people who have bested them in online argument, though.
"And I didn't make any comment about anyone's family. What are you on about?"
You didn't make the sarcastic comment at 11:12am on Monday then? Is someone impersonating you?
Debdenite
says...
11:04am Wed 10 Feb 10
loughtonkid
says...
11:37am Wed 10 Feb 10
Debdenite wrote:No, I did not report it to the police.
loughtonkid wrote: I would just like to talk about my nice experience of Epping Forest College 'students'. I was on the top deck of the 20 today, when a group of the students started throwing beer cans at me, and then one of then came up to me and **** in my face! Nice. And I know they were from EFC as they were talking about their classes.Did you report it to the police?
I dont have the time to report little things, it wasnt really a serious crime. Also, I'm not sure the police could have done much anyway.
P.S. That four letter word was ' f a r t ' - its not exactly a swear word.
Anyway, I would like to say that most EFC students are good people, just there are quite alot who are not very nice.
Debdenite
says...
1:53pm Wed 10 Feb 10
loughtonkid wrote:Unless people tell the police where and when problems arise, there's not a lot they can do about it. All it requires is a quick email or phone call to the police officer in charge of the local team (Sami Dawood in Debden) and in doing so the police can identify problem areas. Anti-social behaviour might not be serious, but it is annoying and there is a drive to confront it in Loughton - much of it seems to occur on a weekend in the High Road. If one bus service is particularly affected, they can hone in on it. I don't know what people expect the college to do about behaviour of students outside the college, any more than employers can control their staff when they are not at work.
Debdenite wrote:No, I did not report it to the police.
loughtonkid wrote: I would just like to talk about my nice experience of Epping Forest College 'students'. I was on the top deck of the 20 today, when a group of the students started throwing beer cans at me, and then one of then came up to me and **** in my face! Nice. And I know they were from EFC as they were talking about their classes.Did you report it to the police?
I dont have the time to report little things, it wasnt really a serious crime. Also, I'm not sure the police could have done much anyway.
P.S. That four letter word was ' f a r t ' - its not exactly a swear word.
Anyway, I would like to say that most EFC students are good people, just there are quite alot who are not very nice.
If anyone is concerned about crime and anti-social behaviour, they can go to the police neighbourhood action panel meeting at the college from 7pm tomorrow (Thursday) evening and raise their concerns there.
loughtonkid
says...
5:23pm Wed 10 Feb 10
I got a reply a few weeks later, and they just said some rubbish about not having the resources to do it or something.
Debdenite
says...
6:37pm Wed 10 Feb 10
AirForceOne
says...
7:19pm Wed 10 Feb 10
The police arent interested in responding to the general public. They are only interested in doing what they want. If your house is burgled do the police care? No. Yet they can often be found en-masse lurking in the bushes waiting for a motorist doing 35mph. Of course, the police never ever exceed the speed limit by something as outragous and socialy unacceptable as 5mph over. So do you seriously think they are going to bother with someone being abused on a bus?
And as for the BNP. they are a lightweight outfit of idiots. Nobody cares about them. Anybody that supports them already holds similar views, they dont need the bnp to inspire them. Only a very weak minded individual with a very narrow band of experience of the world would let the BNP get under thier skin. Oh, one more thing, is it you who discovered hot water? Such a brilliant discovery.
Debdenite
says...
8:18pm Wed 10 Feb 10
As for the police, if you don't try to bring them to account and demonstrate they are not dealing with certain problems, then you can't really expect them to work differently, can you?
AirForceOne
says...
10:10pm Wed 10 Feb 10
Debdenite wrote:bnp may well have chips on their shoulders, my point was YOU have a chip on your shoulder.
AirForceOne: Maybe I don't like a former NF vigilante racist as my local councillor, the slew of bigoted pamphlets we get through our door and the resulting racial tensions they create. The people with the biggest chips on their shoulders are the BNP, who seem to have a big problem with anyone who is not as white or as idiotic as them.
As for the police, if you don't try to bring them to account and demonstrate they are not dealing with certain problems, then you can't really expect them to work differently, can you?
Leaving that aside, you are, with all due respect, extremely naive.
Debdenite
says...
10:20pm Wed 10 Feb 10
AirForceOne wrote:No, I'm saying it how I see it. The BNP choose to victimise people, are you saying that when anyone they attack or who has a problem with their hate propaganda complains they have a chip on their shoulder? Your bugbear appears to be speed cameras - would it be fair to say that you have achip on your shoulder or that you have a legitimate grievance?
Debdenite wrote:bnp may well have chips on their shoulders, my point was YOU have a chip on your shoulder.
AirForceOne: Maybe I don't like a former NF vigilante racist as my local councillor, the slew of bigoted pamphlets we get through our door and the resulting racial tensions they create. The people with the biggest chips on their shoulders are the BNP, who seem to have a big problem with anyone who is not as white or as idiotic as them.
As for the police, if you don't try to bring them to account and demonstrate they are not dealing with certain problems, then you can't really expect them to work differently, can you?
Leaving that aside, you are, with all due respect, extremely naive.
AirForceOne
says...
11:54pm Wed 10 Feb 10
Debdenite wrote:If you take no notice of the BNP they cant hurt you. Do you not remember sticks and stones?
AirForceOne wrote:No, I'm saying it how I see it. The BNP choose to victimise people, are you saying that when anyone they attack or who has a problem with their hate propaganda complains they have a chip on their shoulder? Your bugbear appears to be speed cameras - would it be fair to say that you have achip on your shoulder or that you have a legitimate grievance?
Debdenite wrote:bnp may well have chips on their shoulders, my point was YOU have a chip on your shoulder.
AirForceOne: Maybe I don't like a former NF vigilante racist as my local councillor, the slew of bigoted pamphlets we get through our door and the resulting racial tensions they create. The people with the biggest chips on their shoulders are the BNP, who seem to have a big problem with anyone who is not as white or as idiotic as them.
As for the police, if you don't try to bring them to account and demonstrate they are not dealing with certain problems, then you can't really expect them to work differently, can you?
Leaving that aside, you are, with all due respect, extremely naive.
This story is about brawling in Debden by people who may or may not be from the area. It is you who dragged BNP into it. It is people like you that give BNP publicity. The rest of us dont take any notice of them.
As for speed cameras, there is a common and justified belief that their purpose is to raise money. The idea of road safety is just a smokescreen. If money was not the issue and just a tool as they claim, then why not put the money into the national lottery good causes fund? That way people wouldnt feel like its just another tax. It still hurts the pocket at least for some of us. Obviously they wont because its a too much much of an earner. And more to the point, any points I have made about speed cameras have been relevant to the story.
Debdenite
says...
8:20am Thu 11 Feb 10
As for the speed cameras, I agree with you. However, the ones in Loughton don't seem to be working anyway.
girlfromessex
says...
11:50pm Fri 12 Feb 10
Also, did you know that most buses have CCTV and that it has been used in evidence against offenders?
As for this incident, it is one of a number - some involving the college but most not. I am afraid that some of our local kids do cause a lot of bother in the Broadway area and it is up to local people to report it. Thanks to the local churches there are a number of things for young people now, but they are centred on the High Road end of town. We have a couple of churches in Debden, do they have any youth projects going on? If they do, it would be nice if they could publicise them a bit more.
Looking at some of the earlier posts - how on earth can the LRA or any other political party sort out the college? The college is a private business, thanks to Tory incompetence that forced all Further Education Colleges to incorporate into independent businesses. That led to them taking Loughton Hall with them, which still makes my blood boil. If the college were still with the local authority, they would not be in the mess they are now.
That said, there are some brilliant students in the college, but yes, they do focus too much on vocational areas and a lot of people miss their evening classes. The college also ignores the need of people with disabilities - and it is about time some attention was drawn to their neglect of people with learning difficulties, in favour of people living in poor postcodes that bring in higher funding.
loughtonkid says...
11:16am Sun 7 Feb 10
Most likely they attend Epping Forest College Forest!
Why do they let people from the medieval ages attend that college??
The crime and violence from the delights of east London are slowly creeping into the area of Epping Forest
(btw, thats why hardly anyone from this area attends their nearest college, EFC)