Police appeal launched after 13-year-old sexually assaulted in Walthamstow flats and park

Teenager sexually assaulted by gang

Officer guards the entrance to Stoneydown Park in Pretoria Avenue

The park remains taped off

First published in News
Last updated
This Is Local London: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter

A 13-year-old girl was sexually assaulted by a gang of youths.

Detectives from the Sexual Offences Exploitation and Child Abuse Command are investigating an attack on the teenager on Sunday afternoon. 

She was assaulted by a group of youths in a block of flats in Essex Road and then again in Stoneydown Park in Walthamstow.

The incident happened sometime between 5pm and 9pm. 

A police cordon was set up around the park yesterday morning at around 7am and remained in place late into the evening. 

Entrances to the park in Pretoria Avenue and Blackhorse Road were taped off, with an officer guarding each entrance. 

The park, used frequently by schoolchildren, borders Stoneydown Primary School and Nursery in Pretoria Avenue and St Patrick's Catholic Primary School in Longfield Avenue. 

It remains taped off and closed to the public but officers are no longer guarding the park. 

No arrests have been made. 

People living nearby said there are regular problems in the park. 

A 35-year-old mother, who lives opposite the park in Lloyd Road, did not want to be named because of the threat of gangs.

She said: “Sadly, I’m not surprised. There are too many underage kids drinking and smoking in the park and they congregate their late at night.”

A 25-year-old off licence owner in Blackhorse Road also asked not to be named. 

He said: “There is always misbehaviour. The park is never clean and rather than to try to resolve these problems, the police don’t bother until the crime actually happens.”

Police are urgently appealing for anyone with information to contact the incident room on 0208 217 6541 or call Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111. 

Comments (31)

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12:45pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

Another blot in the crime statistics for 'crime reduced' Walthamstow. The police have long abandoned the area it seems to the Ferals ang gangs that rule the highways these days. In the past week, we have had at least one stabbing and shooting and now this. Only when the police reclaim the territory will crime really come down. Until then, sadly I feel there will be more of these depressing reports.
Another blot in the crime statistics for 'crime reduced' Walthamstow. The police have long abandoned the area it seems to the Ferals ang gangs that rule the highways these days. In the past week, we have had at least one stabbing and shooting and now this. Only when the police reclaim the territory will crime really come down. Until then, sadly I feel there will be more of these depressing reports. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 6

12:50pm Tue 29 Jul 14

marshwarbler says...

I regularly walk through this park and there's usually a gang of kids sitting down at the speakers corner end looking dodgy. Sadly it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
I regularly walk through this park and there's usually a gang of kids sitting down at the speakers corner end looking dodgy. Sadly it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. marshwarbler
  • Score: 24

2:08pm Tue 29 Jul 14

LakeBreeze says...

This is absolutely hideous. She is only 13, the poor child. And the idea that this happened in broad daylight; just hideous. Something needs to be different, and it is needed ASAP. More police walking a neighbourhood beat like things used to be.
This is absolutely hideous. She is only 13, the poor child. And the idea that this happened in broad daylight; just hideous. Something needs to be different, and it is needed ASAP. More police walking a neighbourhood beat like things used to be. LakeBreeze
  • Score: 17

2:36pm Tue 29 Jul 14

I'm Alan says...

Find them, jail them, and throw away the key..
Find them, jail them, and throw away the key.. I'm Alan
  • Score: 20

2:37pm Tue 29 Jul 14

marshwarbler says...

The thing is, the young men who loiter there are always smoking particularly potent smelling skunk which wafts all around the place and there's occasionally a car parked by one of the entrances full of dodgy men.

I'm surprised the local police haven't targeted the area before, after all it's right next to two primary schools and a childrens playground
The thing is, the young men who loiter there are always smoking particularly potent smelling skunk which wafts all around the place and there's occasionally a car parked by one of the entrances full of dodgy men. I'm surprised the local police haven't targeted the area before, after all it's right next to two primary schools and a childrens playground marshwarbler
  • Score: 23

2:48pm Tue 29 Jul 14

PsiMonk says...

1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course.

2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths.

In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.
1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course. 2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths. In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective. PsiMonk
  • Score: 15

2:50pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

The council spend fortunes on theses parks only to be used as a safe haven for Feral yobs to smoke drugs and cause Havoc to everyone else .

Years of neglect and softly softly approach by the police has boosted these feral's confidence to make them feel that they can get away with what they like. They receive no guidance or discipline at home or at school and no admonishment by the police. They think they can walk on water and this is why all this gang crime and now this occurs.

It is about time that a tougher stance was made and these idiots and crooks are locked up as they are a drain on society and unless tackled earlier on in life, go on to commit even worse heinous crimes and further milk the country of taxpayers money.

It is an utter disgrace that at the height if summer when kids are off school there is hardly ever a police presence. Where incidentally are the useless Blunkett's Bobby's that were lauded to 'free up the real Policemen from paperwork' so that we would have more police on the streets?

The situation is dire, they have got rid of all the police stations anyhow so the sight of a uniformed police office is a rarity these days.
The council spend fortunes on theses parks only to be used as a safe haven for Feral yobs to smoke drugs and cause Havoc to everyone else . Years of neglect and softly softly approach by the police has boosted these feral's confidence to make them feel that they can get away with what they like. They receive no guidance or discipline at home or at school and no admonishment by the police. They think they can walk on water and this is why all this gang crime and now this occurs. It is about time that a tougher stance was made and these idiots and crooks are locked up as they are a drain on society and unless tackled earlier on in life, go on to commit even worse heinous crimes and further milk the country of taxpayers money. It is an utter disgrace that at the height if summer when kids are off school there is hardly ever a police presence. Where incidentally are the useless Blunkett's Bobby's that were lauded to 'free up the real Policemen from paperwork' so that we would have more police on the streets? The situation is dire, they have got rid of all the police stations anyhow so the sight of a uniformed police office is a rarity these days. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -9

2:53pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

PsiMonk wrote:
1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course.

2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths.

In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.
It is liberally daft ideas like yours that have contributed to the ruin of this once great land. Smoking skunk weed is no trivial matter.

Go and tell the weeping parents visiting their mentally ill teenage kids up and down the land in psychiatric hospitals that cannabis is harmless.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: 1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course. 2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths. In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.[/p][/quote]It is liberally daft ideas like yours that have contributed to the ruin of this once great land. Smoking skunk weed is no trivial matter. Go and tell the weeping parents visiting their mentally ill teenage kids up and down the land in psychiatric hospitals that cannabis is harmless. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -7

3:57pm Tue 29 Jul 14

marshwarbler says...

PsiMonk wrote:
1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course.

2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths.

In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.
I'm not making any assumptions - I purposely walk the long way around the park these days as the guys there can be quite intimidating if you're on your own. God knows i wouldn't walk that way if i were a woman.

Walthamstow is generally a pretty safe place but i have noticed a larger number of dodgy looking guys in gangs around the blackhorse road and st james street areas over the last couple of years.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: 1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course. 2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths. In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.[/p][/quote]I'm not making any assumptions - I purposely walk the long way around the park these days as the guys there can be quite intimidating if you're on your own. God knows i wouldn't walk that way if i were a woman. Walthamstow is generally a pretty safe place but i have noticed a larger number of dodgy looking guys in gangs around the blackhorse road and st james street areas over the last couple of years. marshwarbler
  • Score: 15

4:02pm Tue 29 Jul 14

fed up man says...

Find them and castrate them!!
Find them and castrate them!! fed up man
  • Score: 12

4:36pm Tue 29 Jul 14

fabster says...

How awful. Wishing the girl & her family well and hope the police treat this very seriously.

About 14 years ago when I first moved to Walthamstow, I used Stoneydown Park as a shortcut in the mornings on the way to the station. One sunny weekday afternoon at around 4pm I was on my way to the station and a group of 4 young black men all on bicycles approached me, asked for a light, then a cigarette, then my phone, then my wallet. Before I knew it I was punched, fell to the ground, kicked several times in the shrub. Another group of guys (of Chinese/Filipino origin perhaps) sitting under the pagoda actually came to my rescue & shouted something like "leave him, he ain't one of them".

I ran to Blackhorse Rd station and called the police. I had to wait almost 2 hours before a police car arrived. When it did show up, it turned out they were on scene because there had been a report of a car bumper damaged in the station carpark and the owner was disputing with another driver. I sat in their patrol car another 40mins while the police dealt with what was a straight-forward car insurance matter... in which time, my 4 attackers had almost 3 hours to disappear. Eventually the police drove me back to Stoneydown Park. At first they didn't believe me & seemed doubtful of what had happened to me, even though I had a ripped shirt and my jaw was starting to swell. Anyway, one of the guys from the pagoda (who told the other guys to stop kicking me) was still sitting there. He told the police he saw what had occurred, he knew who they were, but he did not want to get involved. And that was that. Nothing happened subsequently. The only further contact I had was a letter from Victim Support.

Sorry for the long post - but I do hope the police get their act together to help this girl. My attack was gang related, for sure. (between the black youth and the east asian youth) I just happened to sort of look like the latter and ended up being attacked by the former. For sure the element of gangs & guys in Stoneydown has hung around for years. The only time now I go to this park is during the Folk Festival. I'd rather walk a longer route to the station or hitch a lift from my other half if late at night.

The statistics reveal a surprise. Gang crime is going up in Waltham Forest, despite the fancy rebranding of Waltham Forest the Council would have us think. I shudder when I think who is the Lead portfolio member for Community Safety & Cohesion in WF...

I'm sure most of the time, the trouble is inter-gang related and ordinary folk don't get caught up in it. But once in a while, people in the wrong place at the wrong time get hurt & WFMPS must get to grips with this. The main barrier to prosecution comes down to the fact that witnesses don't feel the police can protect them if they come forward and name names.. And so, the whole thing gets dropped.
How awful. Wishing the girl & her family well and hope the police treat this very seriously. About 14 years ago when I first moved to Walthamstow, I used Stoneydown Park as a shortcut in the mornings on the way to the station. One sunny weekday afternoon at around 4pm I was on my way to the station and a group of 4 young black men all on bicycles approached me, asked for a light, then a cigarette, then my phone, then my wallet. Before I knew it I was punched, fell to the ground, kicked several times in the shrub. Another group of guys (of Chinese/Filipino origin perhaps) sitting under the pagoda actually came to my rescue & shouted something like "leave him, he ain't one of them". I ran to Blackhorse Rd station and called the police. I had to wait almost 2 hours before a police car arrived. When it did show up, it turned out they were on scene because there had been a report of a car bumper damaged in the station carpark and the owner was disputing with another driver. I sat in their patrol car another 40mins while the police dealt with what was a straight-forward car insurance matter... in which time, my 4 attackers had almost 3 hours to disappear. Eventually the police drove me back to Stoneydown Park. At first they didn't believe me & seemed doubtful of what had happened to me, even though I had a ripped shirt and my jaw was starting to swell. Anyway, one of the guys from the pagoda (who told the other guys to stop kicking me) was still sitting there. He told the police he saw what had occurred, he knew who they were, but he did not want to get involved. And that was that. Nothing happened subsequently. The only further contact I had was a letter from Victim Support. Sorry for the long post - but I do hope the police get their act together to help this girl. My attack was gang related, for sure. (between the black youth and the east asian youth) I just happened to sort of look like the latter and ended up being attacked by the former. For sure the element of gangs & guys in Stoneydown has hung around for years. The only time now I go to this park is during the Folk Festival. I'd rather walk a longer route to the station or hitch a lift from my other half if late at night. The statistics reveal a surprise. Gang crime is going up in Waltham Forest, despite the fancy rebranding of Waltham Forest the Council would have us think. I shudder when I think who is the Lead portfolio member for Community Safety & Cohesion in WF... I'm sure most of the time, the trouble is inter-gang related and ordinary folk don't get caught up in it. But once in a while, people in the wrong place at the wrong time get hurt & WFMPS must get to grips with this. The main barrier to prosecution comes down to the fact that witnesses don't feel the police can protect them if they come forward and name names.. And so, the whole thing gets dropped. fabster
  • Score: 36

5:31pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Walthamster says...

Desperately sad, both for the victim of this crime and for everyone who used to enjoy this beautiful park - a much-needed oasis in a very built-up area.

PsiMunk, I have to disagree on this one. The kids may not be gangsters, but if they LOOK menacing they're going to frighten people away all the same. Then things go rapidly downhill, ordinary people and families stay away and it really does become dangerous. So it doesn't make any difference if the kids are 'bad' or not -- the harm is done.

The only effective way to stop that happening is for the kids to be moved on. Yes, that seems unfair to them. But it could prevent the much bigger injustice of our few public open spaces becoming unsafe for everyone else.
Desperately sad, both for the victim of this crime and for everyone who used to enjoy this beautiful park - a much-needed oasis in a very built-up area. PsiMunk, I have to disagree on this one. The kids may not be gangsters, but if they LOOK menacing they're going to frighten people away all the same. Then things go rapidly downhill, ordinary people and families stay away and it really does become dangerous. So it doesn't make any difference if the kids are 'bad' or not -- the harm is done. The only effective way to stop that happening is for the kids to be moved on. Yes, that seems unfair to them. But it could prevent the much bigger injustice of our few public open spaces becoming unsafe for everyone else. Walthamster
  • Score: 17

6:16pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Bazza77 says...

PsiMonk wrote:
1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course.

2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths.

In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.
PsiMonk,You are correct,there isnt any blocks of flats in Essex Road,I think they mean Essex CLOSE,which is just around the corner from park,plenty of flats there
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: 1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious. Many teenagers huddle in well-lit areas, showing off and pretending to be tough because they're too scared of the genuine hardnuts. So don't assume just because it looks dodgy, it is. If you see them actually threatening or hurting someone, that's a different matter, of course. 2. The piece suggests this poor girl was attacked before the attack in the park, in a block of flats. If it is on Essex Road - which doesn't have any blocks of flats as far as I'm aware - that's over by St James Park. Either way, it could well be that this girl knew her attackers, that the attacks may have had nothing to do with the park per se - it was just where they all ended up. It certainly sounds like this was not an act of violence perpetrated on someone just passing a group of dodgy youths. In other words, stop with the assumptions until we know more about what actually happened. Most of Walthamstow is fairly safe, even for young and vulnerable teens. Yes there are gangs, but most local kids will not be much affected by them in their life. That's not to say Police couldn't do a much better job - just to say it's important to keep things in perspective.[/p][/quote]PsiMonk,You are correct,there isnt any blocks of flats in Essex Road,I think they mean Essex CLOSE,which is just around the corner from park,plenty of flats there Bazza77
  • Score: 7

7:16pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Walthamster says...

fabster wrote:
How awful. Wishing the girl & her family well and hope the police treat this very seriously.

About 14 years ago when I first moved to Walthamstow, I used Stoneydown Park as a shortcut in the mornings on the way to the station. One sunny weekday afternoon at around 4pm I was on my way to the station and a group of 4 young black men all on bicycles approached me, asked for a light, then a cigarette, then my phone, then my wallet. Before I knew it I was punched, fell to the ground, kicked several times in the shrub. Another group of guys (of Chinese/Filipino origin perhaps) sitting under the pagoda actually came to my rescue & shouted something like "leave him, he ain't one of them".

I ran to Blackhorse Rd station and called the police. I had to wait almost 2 hours before a police car arrived. When it did show up, it turned out they were on scene because there had been a report of a car bumper damaged in the station carpark and the owner was disputing with another driver. I sat in their patrol car another 40mins while the police dealt with what was a straight-forward car insurance matter... in which time, my 4 attackers had almost 3 hours to disappear. Eventually the police drove me back to Stoneydown Park. At first they didn't believe me & seemed doubtful of what had happened to me, even though I had a ripped shirt and my jaw was starting to swell. Anyway, one of the guys from the pagoda (who told the other guys to stop kicking me) was still sitting there. He told the police he saw what had occurred, he knew who they were, but he did not want to get involved. And that was that. Nothing happened subsequently. The only further contact I had was a letter from Victim Support.

Sorry for the long post - but I do hope the police get their act together to help this girl. My attack was gang related, for sure. (between the black youth and the east asian youth) I just happened to sort of look like the latter and ended up being attacked by the former. For sure the element of gangs & guys in Stoneydown has hung around for years. The only time now I go to this park is during the Folk Festival. I'd rather walk a longer route to the station or hitch a lift from my other half if late at night.

The statistics reveal a surprise. Gang crime is going up in Waltham Forest, despite the fancy rebranding of Waltham Forest the Council would have us think. I shudder when I think who is the Lead portfolio member for Community Safety & Cohesion in WF...

I'm sure most of the time, the trouble is inter-gang related and ordinary folk don't get caught up in it. But once in a while, people in the wrong place at the wrong time get hurt & WFMPS must get to grips with this. The main barrier to prosecution comes down to the fact that witnesses don't feel the police can protect them if they come forward and name names.. And so, the whole thing gets dropped.
Fabster - sorry to hear of your bad experience, and police wasting time on a trivial car-insurance matter while your attackers strolled away, knowing they could do it again when they liked.

I have a sense that many police officers feel defeated by excessive demands, by endless stupid paperwork, by being blamed when things go wrong as if they were committing all the crime instead of just failing to prevent it, by seeing thugs get weak sentences after they've worked hard to arrest them. I'd find it depressing!

But we need them more than ever. We need them to be motivated, and that may mean political and administrative changes that encourage them to be more active.
[quote][p][bold]fabster[/bold] wrote: How awful. Wishing the girl & her family well and hope the police treat this very seriously. About 14 years ago when I first moved to Walthamstow, I used Stoneydown Park as a shortcut in the mornings on the way to the station. One sunny weekday afternoon at around 4pm I was on my way to the station and a group of 4 young black men all on bicycles approached me, asked for a light, then a cigarette, then my phone, then my wallet. Before I knew it I was punched, fell to the ground, kicked several times in the shrub. Another group of guys (of Chinese/Filipino origin perhaps) sitting under the pagoda actually came to my rescue & shouted something like "leave him, he ain't one of them". I ran to Blackhorse Rd station and called the police. I had to wait almost 2 hours before a police car arrived. When it did show up, it turned out they were on scene because there had been a report of a car bumper damaged in the station carpark and the owner was disputing with another driver. I sat in their patrol car another 40mins while the police dealt with what was a straight-forward car insurance matter... in which time, my 4 attackers had almost 3 hours to disappear. Eventually the police drove me back to Stoneydown Park. At first they didn't believe me & seemed doubtful of what had happened to me, even though I had a ripped shirt and my jaw was starting to swell. Anyway, one of the guys from the pagoda (who told the other guys to stop kicking me) was still sitting there. He told the police he saw what had occurred, he knew who they were, but he did not want to get involved. And that was that. Nothing happened subsequently. The only further contact I had was a letter from Victim Support. Sorry for the long post - but I do hope the police get their act together to help this girl. My attack was gang related, for sure. (between the black youth and the east asian youth) I just happened to sort of look like the latter and ended up being attacked by the former. For sure the element of gangs & guys in Stoneydown has hung around for years. The only time now I go to this park is during the Folk Festival. I'd rather walk a longer route to the station or hitch a lift from my other half if late at night. The statistics reveal a surprise. Gang crime is going up in Waltham Forest, despite the fancy rebranding of Waltham Forest the Council would have us think. I shudder when I think who is the Lead portfolio member for Community Safety & Cohesion in WF... I'm sure most of the time, the trouble is inter-gang related and ordinary folk don't get caught up in it. But once in a while, people in the wrong place at the wrong time get hurt & WFMPS must get to grips with this. The main barrier to prosecution comes down to the fact that witnesses don't feel the police can protect them if they come forward and name names.. And so, the whole thing gets dropped.[/p][/quote]Fabster - sorry to hear of your bad experience, and police wasting time on a trivial car-insurance matter while your attackers strolled away, knowing they could do it again when they liked. I have a sense that many police officers feel defeated by excessive demands, by endless stupid paperwork, by being blamed when things go wrong as if they were committing all the crime instead of just failing to prevent it, by seeing thugs get weak sentences after they've worked hard to arrest them. I'd find it depressing! But we need them more than ever. We need them to be motivated, and that may mean political and administrative changes that encourage them to be more active. Walthamster
  • Score: 19

7:52pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Howard Wolowitz says...

fabster wrote:
How awful. Wishing the girl & her family well and hope the police treat this very seriously.

About 14 years ago when I first moved to Walthamstow, I used Stoneydown Park as a shortcut in the mornings on the way to the station. One sunny weekday afternoon at around 4pm I was on my way to the station and a group of 4 young black men all on bicycles approached me, asked for a light, then a cigarette, then my phone, then my wallet. Before I knew it I was punched, fell to the ground, kicked several times in the shrub. Another group of guys (of Chinese/Filipino origin perhaps) sitting under the pagoda actually came to my rescue & shouted something like "leave him, he ain't one of them".

I ran to Blackhorse Rd station and called the police. I had to wait almost 2 hours before a police car arrived. When it did show up, it turned out they were on scene because there had been a report of a car bumper damaged in the station carpark and the owner was disputing with another driver. I sat in their patrol car another 40mins while the police dealt with what was a straight-forward car insurance matter... in which time, my 4 attackers had almost 3 hours to disappear. Eventually the police drove me back to Stoneydown Park. At first they didn't believe me & seemed doubtful of what had happened to me, even though I had a ripped shirt and my jaw was starting to swell. Anyway, one of the guys from the pagoda (who told the other guys to stop kicking me) was still sitting there. He told the police he saw what had occurred, he knew who they were, but he did not want to get involved. And that was that. Nothing happened subsequently. The only further contact I had was a letter from Victim Support.

Sorry for the long post - but I do hope the police get their act together to help this girl. My attack was gang related, for sure. (between the black youth and the east asian youth) I just happened to sort of look like the latter and ended up being attacked by the former. For sure the element of gangs & guys in Stoneydown has hung around for years. The only time now I go to this park is during the Folk Festival. I'd rather walk a longer route to the station or hitch a lift from my other half if late at night.

The statistics reveal a surprise. Gang crime is going up in Waltham Forest, despite the fancy rebranding of Waltham Forest the Council would have us think. I shudder when I think who is the Lead portfolio member for Community Safety & Cohesion in WF...

I'm sure most of the time, the trouble is inter-gang related and ordinary folk don't get caught up in it. But once in a while, people in the wrong place at the wrong time get hurt & WFMPS must get to grips with this. The main barrier to prosecution comes down to the fact that witnesses don't feel the police can protect them if they come forward and name names.. And so, the whole thing gets dropped.
Well sticky crime is falling eh!
[quote][p][bold]fabster[/bold] wrote: How awful. Wishing the girl & her family well and hope the police treat this very seriously. About 14 years ago when I first moved to Walthamstow, I used Stoneydown Park as a shortcut in the mornings on the way to the station. One sunny weekday afternoon at around 4pm I was on my way to the station and a group of 4 young black men all on bicycles approached me, asked for a light, then a cigarette, then my phone, then my wallet. Before I knew it I was punched, fell to the ground, kicked several times in the shrub. Another group of guys (of Chinese/Filipino origin perhaps) sitting under the pagoda actually came to my rescue & shouted something like "leave him, he ain't one of them". I ran to Blackhorse Rd station and called the police. I had to wait almost 2 hours before a police car arrived. When it did show up, it turned out they were on scene because there had been a report of a car bumper damaged in the station carpark and the owner was disputing with another driver. I sat in their patrol car another 40mins while the police dealt with what was a straight-forward car insurance matter... in which time, my 4 attackers had almost 3 hours to disappear. Eventually the police drove me back to Stoneydown Park. At first they didn't believe me & seemed doubtful of what had happened to me, even though I had a ripped shirt and my jaw was starting to swell. Anyway, one of the guys from the pagoda (who told the other guys to stop kicking me) was still sitting there. He told the police he saw what had occurred, he knew who they were, but he did not want to get involved. And that was that. Nothing happened subsequently. The only further contact I had was a letter from Victim Support. Sorry for the long post - but I do hope the police get their act together to help this girl. My attack was gang related, for sure. (between the black youth and the east asian youth) I just happened to sort of look like the latter and ended up being attacked by the former. For sure the element of gangs & guys in Stoneydown has hung around for years. The only time now I go to this park is during the Folk Festival. I'd rather walk a longer route to the station or hitch a lift from my other half if late at night. The statistics reveal a surprise. Gang crime is going up in Waltham Forest, despite the fancy rebranding of Waltham Forest the Council would have us think. I shudder when I think who is the Lead portfolio member for Community Safety & Cohesion in WF... I'm sure most of the time, the trouble is inter-gang related and ordinary folk don't get caught up in it. But once in a while, people in the wrong place at the wrong time get hurt & WFMPS must get to grips with this. The main barrier to prosecution comes down to the fact that witnesses don't feel the police can protect them if they come forward and name names.. And so, the whole thing gets dropped.[/p][/quote]Well sticky crime is falling eh! Howard Wolowitz
  • Score: -13

8:36pm Tue 29 Jul 14

PsiMonk says...

Walthamster, I'm not saying having lairy kids around isn't a problem. I'm saying it a) may well have nothing to do with them (the attack started elsewhere after all) and b) we shouldn't assume they are automatically feral criminals because they come across a bit dodgy.

I also think that endlessly moving on slightly dodgy looking teens, instead of engaging them, isn't a good answer - they just end up marginalised and angry, and still nearby. The answer is to draw a firm boundary and stick to it fairly solidly. For instance, get the police not to move them on, but do anyone smoking skunk or being shouty or catcalling women etc. Show them they can stay, if they behave, but not if they don't. And make that clear. Ideally also offer them some things to do to connect them to the park and broader community while you are at it.
Walthamster, I'm not saying having lairy kids around isn't a problem. I'm saying it a) may well have nothing to do with them (the attack started elsewhere after all) and b) we shouldn't assume they are automatically feral criminals because they come across a bit dodgy. I also think that endlessly moving on slightly dodgy looking teens, instead of engaging them, isn't a good answer - they just end up marginalised and angry, and still nearby. The answer is to draw a firm boundary and stick to it fairly solidly. For instance, get the police not to move them on, but do anyone smoking skunk or being shouty or catcalling women etc. Show them they can stay, if they behave, but not if they don't. And make that clear. Ideally also offer them some things to do to connect them to the park and broader community while you are at it. PsiMonk
  • Score: 11

9:52pm Tue 29 Jul 14

James O'Rourke says...

There's a way forward...ask High Street ward Cllr Ali who is Portfolio Lead Member - Community Safety and Cohesion responsible for amongst other things - Anti-gangs strategy, Drug Action Team, Relationships with police & Prevent strategy - what he proposes to do about an area local residents and businesses are saying there is underage drinking and smoking and general anti-social behaviour. An area where he is a Councillor!
For this and his 'normal' Cllr duties he gets a nice £31k pa.

"1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious."
So smoking skunk is not serious?!!!

My thoughts are with this poor young victim who in essence had to endure two attacks at two locations. Swift arrests and justice are required.
There's a way forward...ask High Street ward Cllr Ali who is Portfolio Lead Member - Community Safety and Cohesion responsible for amongst other things - Anti-gangs strategy, Drug Action Team, Relationships with police & Prevent strategy - what he proposes to do about an area local residents and businesses are saying there is underage drinking and smoking and general anti-social behaviour. An area where he is a Councillor! For this and his 'normal' Cllr duties he gets a nice £31k pa. "1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious." So smoking skunk is not serious?!!! My thoughts are with this poor young victim who in essence had to endure two attacks at two locations. Swift arrests and justice are required. James O'Rourke
  • Score: 9

10:22pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Walthamster, I'm not saying having lairy kids around isn't a problem. I'm saying it a) may well have nothing to do with them (the attack started elsewhere after all) and b) we shouldn't assume they are automatically feral criminals because they come across a bit dodgy.

I also think that endlessly moving on slightly dodgy looking teens, instead of engaging them, isn't a good answer - they just end up marginalised and angry, and still nearby. The answer is to draw a firm boundary and stick to it fairly solidly. For instance, get the police not to move them on, but do anyone smoking skunk or being shouty or catcalling women etc. Show them they can stay, if they behave, but not if they don't. And make that clear. Ideally also offer them some things to do to connect them to the park and broader community while you are at it.
All your appeasement strategies have been tried and failed.

We need a tougher stance to stop these gangs, the knifings and the gun crime, certainly the sexual abuse of young kids.

Take your 'hug the hoodie' strategy with you.

In Baltimore, USA, they have just introduced curfews for Ferals to protect the kids as well as prevent crime. Maybe this will be the way forward here. Parents should know what their kids are doing and where.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Walthamster, I'm not saying having lairy kids around isn't a problem. I'm saying it a) may well have nothing to do with them (the attack started elsewhere after all) and b) we shouldn't assume they are automatically feral criminals because they come across a bit dodgy. I also think that endlessly moving on slightly dodgy looking teens, instead of engaging them, isn't a good answer - they just end up marginalised and angry, and still nearby. The answer is to draw a firm boundary and stick to it fairly solidly. For instance, get the police not to move them on, but do anyone smoking skunk or being shouty or catcalling women etc. Show them they can stay, if they behave, but not if they don't. And make that clear. Ideally also offer them some things to do to connect them to the park and broader community while you are at it.[/p][/quote]All your appeasement strategies have been tried and failed. We need a tougher stance to stop these gangs, the knifings and the gun crime, certainly the sexual abuse of young kids. Take your 'hug the hoodie' strategy with you. In Baltimore, USA, they have just introduced curfews for Ferals to protect the kids as well as prevent crime. Maybe this will be the way forward here. Parents should know what their kids are doing and where. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -4

11:09pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Walthamster says...

James O'Rourke wrote:
There's a way forward...ask High Street ward Cllr Ali who is Portfolio Lead Member - Community Safety and Cohesion responsible for amongst other things - Anti-gangs strategy, Drug Action Team, Relationships with police & Prevent strategy - what he proposes to do about an area local residents and businesses are saying there is underage drinking and smoking and general anti-social behaviour. An area where he is a Councillor!
For this and his 'normal' Cllr duties he gets a nice £31k pa.

"1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious."
So smoking skunk is not serious?!!!

My thoughts are with this poor young victim who in essence had to endure two attacks at two locations. Swift arrests and justice are required.
"Ask High Street ward Cllr Ali who is Portfolio Lead Member - Community Safety and Cohesion responsible for amongst other things - Anti-gangs strategy, Drug Action Team, Relationships with police & Prevent strategy - what he proposes to do "

You have to be joking, James! Cllr Ali will do what he always does. Nothing! Except pick up his £31,000, of course.
[quote][p][bold]James O'Rourke[/bold] wrote: There's a way forward...ask High Street ward Cllr Ali who is Portfolio Lead Member - Community Safety and Cohesion responsible for amongst other things - Anti-gangs strategy, Drug Action Team, Relationships with police & Prevent strategy - what he proposes to do about an area local residents and businesses are saying there is underage drinking and smoking and general anti-social behaviour. An area where he is a Councillor! For this and his 'normal' Cllr duties he gets a nice £31k pa. "1. Just because people look dodgy or loiter, even because they smoke skunk, doesn't mean they're actually up to anything serious." So smoking skunk is not serious?!!! My thoughts are with this poor young victim who in essence had to endure two attacks at two locations. Swift arrests and justice are required.[/p][/quote]"Ask High Street ward Cllr Ali who is Portfolio Lead Member - Community Safety and Cohesion responsible for amongst other things - Anti-gangs strategy, Drug Action Team, Relationships with police & Prevent strategy - what he proposes to do " You have to be joking, James! Cllr Ali will do what he always does. Nothing! Except pick up his £31,000, of course. Walthamster
  • Score: 15

11:53pm Tue 29 Jul 14

PsiMonk says...

A. No, smoking skunk is not serious, stacked against sexual assault, or mugging, or assault with a deadly weapon etc. Lots of perfectly normal teens do drugs - I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's the simple truth. And criminalising them is something, at the very least, police don't seem to have much resources to do.

B. "Appeasement", "hug a goody", oh do one you hoary old troll. Looking to Baltimore for appropriate youth strategies is like looking to Detroit for good manufacturing strategies. Pretty much all the evidence is that tough crackdowns and hang em high sentencing doesn't actually cut youth crime long-term. But don't worry about facts or evidence-based policy, just string em up.

C. I've no love for Cllr Ali, but James, you're hardly a neutral voice on this. If y'all care so much about him, mount a campaign, write an email etc. Venting on here is utterly pointless. On which note...
A. No, smoking skunk is not serious, stacked against sexual assault, or mugging, or assault with a deadly weapon etc. Lots of perfectly normal teens do drugs - I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's the simple truth. And criminalising them is something, at the very least, police don't seem to have much resources to do. B. "Appeasement", "hug a goody", oh do one you hoary old troll. Looking to Baltimore for appropriate youth strategies is like looking to Detroit for good manufacturing strategies. Pretty much all the evidence is that tough crackdowns and hang em high sentencing doesn't actually cut youth crime long-term. But don't worry about facts or evidence-based policy, just string em up. C. I've no love for Cllr Ali, but James, you're hardly a neutral voice on this. If y'all care so much about him, mount a campaign, write an email etc. Venting on here is utterly pointless. On which note... PsiMonk
  • Score: 4

12:38am Wed 30 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

PsiMonk wrote:
A. No, smoking skunk is not serious, stacked against sexual assault, or mugging, or assault with a deadly weapon etc. Lots of perfectly normal teens do drugs - I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's the simple truth. And criminalising them is something, at the very least, police don't seem to have much resources to do.

B. "Appeasement", "hug a goody", oh do one you hoary old troll. Looking to Baltimore for appropriate youth strategies is like looking to Detroit for good manufacturing strategies. Pretty much all the evidence is that tough crackdowns and hang em high sentencing doesn't actually cut youth crime long-term. But don't worry about facts or evidence-based policy, just string em up.

C. I've no love for Cllr Ali, but James, you're hardly a neutral voice on this. If y'all care so much about him, mount a campaign, write an email etc. Venting on here is utterly pointless. On which note...
You need a new abacus .
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: A. No, smoking skunk is not serious, stacked against sexual assault, or mugging, or assault with a deadly weapon etc. Lots of perfectly normal teens do drugs - I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's the simple truth. And criminalising them is something, at the very least, police don't seem to have much resources to do. B. "Appeasement", "hug a goody", oh do one you hoary old troll. Looking to Baltimore for appropriate youth strategies is like looking to Detroit for good manufacturing strategies. Pretty much all the evidence is that tough crackdowns and hang em high sentencing doesn't actually cut youth crime long-term. But don't worry about facts or evidence-based policy, just string em up. C. I've no love for Cllr Ali, but James, you're hardly a neutral voice on this. If y'all care so much about him, mount a campaign, write an email etc. Venting on here is utterly pointless. On which note...[/p][/quote]You need a new abacus . Villagecranberry
  • Score: -13

11:14am Wed 30 Jul 14

marshwarbler says...

PsiMonk wrote:
A. No, smoking skunk is not serious, stacked against sexual assault, or mugging, or assault with a deadly weapon etc. Lots of perfectly normal teens do drugs - I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's the simple truth. And criminalising them is something, at the very least, police don't seem to have much resources to do.

B. "Appeasement", "hug a goody", oh do one you hoary old troll. Looking to Baltimore for appropriate youth strategies is like looking to Detroit for good manufacturing strategies. Pretty much all the evidence is that tough crackdowns and hang em high sentencing doesn't actually cut youth crime long-term. But don't worry about facts or evidence-based policy, just string em up.

C. I've no love for Cllr Ali, but James, you're hardly a neutral voice on this. If y'all care so much about him, mount a campaign, write an email etc. Venting on here is utterly pointless. On which note...
I'd argue that standing around in a large group smoking skunk IS serious when it's done repeatedly in a public park, next to two primary schools and a kids playground.

It's certainly intimidating to people who might otherwise use the park with their young children.

Anyway, this is really about the fact that the area around Pretoria avenue and St James Street has become progressively more dodgy over the last couple of years - there certainly seem to be more gangs of young men (black, white and asian) hanging around.
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: A. No, smoking skunk is not serious, stacked against sexual assault, or mugging, or assault with a deadly weapon etc. Lots of perfectly normal teens do drugs - I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm saying that's the simple truth. And criminalising them is something, at the very least, police don't seem to have much resources to do. B. "Appeasement", "hug a goody", oh do one you hoary old troll. Looking to Baltimore for appropriate youth strategies is like looking to Detroit for good manufacturing strategies. Pretty much all the evidence is that tough crackdowns and hang em high sentencing doesn't actually cut youth crime long-term. But don't worry about facts or evidence-based policy, just string em up. C. I've no love for Cllr Ali, but James, you're hardly a neutral voice on this. If y'all care so much about him, mount a campaign, write an email etc. Venting on here is utterly pointless. On which note...[/p][/quote]I'd argue that standing around in a large group smoking skunk IS serious when it's done repeatedly in a public park, next to two primary schools and a kids playground. It's certainly intimidating to people who might otherwise use the park with their young children. Anyway, this is really about the fact that the area around Pretoria avenue and St James Street has become progressively more dodgy over the last couple of years - there certainly seem to be more gangs of young men (black, white and asian) hanging around. marshwarbler
  • Score: 7

1:41pm Wed 30 Jul 14

G_Whiz says...

How the heck are Police supposed to massage the crime figures when this Paper keeps bombarding us horrific stories!

Maybe the Police, media and liberals need to get together to sweep crime news under the carpet altogether?

- or maybe they can just blame poverty, that's always been good 'right-on' excuse! - stuff the victims!

Still - As the Met have now admitted giving only a caution to some rapists and many sex attackers - as no deterrent - why are we surprised!
How the heck are Police supposed to massage the crime figures when this Paper keeps bombarding us horrific stories! Maybe the Police, media and liberals need to get together to sweep crime news under the carpet altogether? - or maybe they can just blame poverty, that's always been good 'right-on' excuse! - stuff the victims! Still - As the Met have now admitted giving only a caution to some rapists and many sex attackers - as no deterrent - why are we surprised! G_Whiz
  • Score: 6

3:41pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

G_Whiz wrote:
How the heck are Police supposed to massage the crime figures when this Paper keeps bombarding us horrific stories!

Maybe the Police, media and liberals need to get together to sweep crime news under the carpet altogether?

- or maybe they can just blame poverty, that's always been good 'right-on' excuse! - stuff the victims!

Still - As the Met have now admitted giving only a caution to some rapists and many sex attackers - as no deterrent - why are we surprised!
The police will have to raid their budget for a high powered shredder, mangle, liquidiser, grinder, incinerator, massager and pulverising pulping apparatus to working on the crime figures of the past week to make these look better.
[quote][p][bold]G_Whiz[/bold] wrote: How the heck are Police supposed to massage the crime figures when this Paper keeps bombarding us horrific stories! Maybe the Police, media and liberals need to get together to sweep crime news under the carpet altogether? - or maybe they can just blame poverty, that's always been good 'right-on' excuse! - stuff the victims! Still - As the Met have now admitted giving only a caution to some rapists and many sex attackers - as no deterrent - why are we surprised![/p][/quote]The police will have to raid their budget for a high powered shredder, mangle, liquidiser, grinder, incinerator, massager and pulverising pulping apparatus to working on the crime figures of the past week to make these look better. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -7

4:43pm Wed 30 Jul 14

LakeBreeze says...

What bothers me is how this assault could have continued in a public place yet nobody was there to intervene or deter, whether that be members of the public, or a local police presence vis a vis my own previous "cop walking the beat" comment.

PsiMonk warns not to make assumptions about the safety of the park, as he points out that the assault appears to have initially begun within a block of flats, merely continuing in the park.

But how can the park be "safe" if a sexual assault CAN BE CONTINUED or revisited there, in hours of broad daylight, presumably with members of the public there -- or indeed the "loitering youths" -- with apparently not a single witnessing soul there constituting either a deterrent or an agent of ending it?

Thus, even if the attackers and their victim "Only ended up in the park" -- THE ATTACK WAS STILL CONTINUING!

Yet that park apparently contained nobody who constituted a threat to the continued assault.

That in itself doesn't sound like a "safe" place to me. I don't care if the attack did not start in the park and therefore has "nothing to do with the park" initially.

The fact that it was clearly able to continue in the park means that park doesn't sound like a safe place to me.

.
What bothers me is how this assault could have continued in a public place yet nobody was there to intervene or deter, whether that be members of the public, or a local police presence vis a vis my own previous "cop walking the beat" comment. PsiMonk warns not to make assumptions about the safety of the park, as he points out that the assault appears to have initially begun within a block of flats, merely continuing in the park. But how can the park be "safe" if a sexual assault CAN BE CONTINUED or revisited there, in hours of broad daylight, presumably with members of the public there -- or indeed the "loitering youths" -- with apparently not a single witnessing soul there constituting either a deterrent or an agent of ending it? Thus, even if the attackers and their victim "Only ended up in the park" -- THE ATTACK WAS STILL CONTINUING! Yet that park apparently contained nobody who constituted a threat to the continued assault. That in itself doesn't sound like a "safe" place to me. I don't care if the attack did not start in the park and therefore has "nothing to do with the park" initially. The fact that it was clearly able to continue in the park means that park doesn't sound like a safe place to me. . LakeBreeze
  • Score: 13

6:55pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Emmy.mercan says...

The mere mention that crime rates are falling makes me shudder! The justice system are now reluctant to prosecute young offenders as they do not wish to disadvantage them in the future. The softly softly approach has left adults/police/parent
s-powerless so therefore we are dealing with a large proportion of feral and dangerous young people with no boundaries. Long gone are the "blame the parents" days. As the care system are bursting with non compliant and non conforming "middle class" kids . Why???? Because they can. This is viewed as a route to independent living and a playground for them to experience whatever society has to offer them.
PsiMonk....let's HIV this conversation if this was yr child......the place creeps people out daytime let alone night.
The mere mention that crime rates are falling makes me shudder! The justice system are now reluctant to prosecute young offenders as they do not wish to disadvantage them in the future. The softly softly approach has left adults/police/parent s-powerless so therefore we are dealing with a large proportion of feral and dangerous young people with no boundaries. Long gone are the "blame the parents" days. As the care system are bursting with non compliant and non conforming "middle class" kids . Why???? Because they can. This is viewed as a route to independent living and a playground for them to experience whatever society has to offer them. PsiMonk....let's HIV this conversation if this was yr child......the place creeps people out daytime let alone night. Emmy.mercan
  • Score: 1

7:25pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

Emmy.mercan wrote:
The mere mention that crime rates are falling makes me shudder! The justice system are now reluctant to prosecute young offenders as they do not wish to disadvantage them in the future. The softly softly approach has left adults/police/parent

s-powerless so therefore we are dealing with a large proportion of feral and dangerous young people with no boundaries. Long gone are the "blame the parents" days. As the care system are bursting with non compliant and non conforming "middle class" kids . Why???? Because they can. This is viewed as a route to independent living and a playground for them to experience whatever society has to offer them.
PsiMonk....let's HIV this conversation if this was yr child......the place creeps people out daytime let alone night.
The trouble is , when you get people believing flawed police statistics and data, this justifies the police closing down stations and reducing patrols as they will falsely argue that the public 'perceive that their is no crime problem' when the reality is on the ground that people are constantly being victims, are too frightened to report anything or when they do try they find it difficult or the police juggle the facts and incorrectly classify crime or write it off completely as unrecorded.
[quote][p][bold]Emmy.mercan[/bold] wrote: The mere mention that crime rates are falling makes me shudder! The justice system are now reluctant to prosecute young offenders as they do not wish to disadvantage them in the future. The softly softly approach has left adults/police/parent s-powerless so therefore we are dealing with a large proportion of feral and dangerous young people with no boundaries. Long gone are the "blame the parents" days. As the care system are bursting with non compliant and non conforming "middle class" kids . Why???? Because they can. This is viewed as a route to independent living and a playground for them to experience whatever society has to offer them. PsiMonk....let's HIV this conversation if this was yr child......the place creeps people out daytime let alone night.[/p][/quote]The trouble is , when you get people believing flawed police statistics and data, this justifies the police closing down stations and reducing patrols as they will falsely argue that the public 'perceive that their is no crime problem' when the reality is on the ground that people are constantly being victims, are too frightened to report anything or when they do try they find it difficult or the police juggle the facts and incorrectly classify crime or write it off completely as unrecorded. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 1

8:41pm Wed 30 Jul 14

PsiMonk says...

Emmy, did you really want to be that offensive and insensitive? My kids actually do play in that park fairly often. It could have been my child. So let's have your conversation then...

The point is that what we know points to the fact the assault didn't start in the park. LakeBreeze makes a valid point that it continued there - and that's bad. But again we don't know where in the park it happened, how loud or visible it was, how many other people were around, whether anyone did anything to stop it etc. There's way too much speculation going on about an actual serious assault on an actual girl. And that's not a good thing. Until we know the facts, we shouldn't assume who assaulted her, how, where or why.

Evidence, facts, reality - sometimes people can make vast leaps of imagination without them. There's often a vast difference between what people tend to think is a serious crime hotspot and what actually is one. I don't know exactly how dangerous that park is after dark, for instance. All I do know is I've never witnessed any violent behaviour in there and my friends who live next to it are happy taking their kids there. Perhaps there's scores of muggings and assaults in there - but those parks that have had gang issues to that degree have generally been covered on here.

I guess some of us see a bunch of teens in the park and think "ooh, dodgy, feral, evil" and some of us see a bunch of teens and think "nice that they have somewhere to go". The reality could be either - but without any actual evidence on how many people are mugged, assaulted or threatened in that park, you're really just speculating and scaremongering.

As an example, I know that lots of people for ages were complaining about kids hanging around the central bus station. As a result police patrols were stepped up - but no actual crimes had been recorded. It was just people being nervy of lairy teens. The local police even talked to the teens involved - and again, they were hanging around the bus station because it was well lit and populated - they were scared of being mugged. The end result was precious police resources were diverted (foot patrols, for instance) to a place that didn't need those resources.

In another story on here about the assault, one of the governors of the school next door says: "The park is generally not unsafe and is a really vibrant place for children and the local community. I don't think the park should be tarnished by this horrible, terrible, act of crime but I do think parks could be made to feel safer.
"I've had lots of interaction with teenagers in the park and although they may be intimidating, I've had many positive experiences and they've always been polite and accommodating."

So, again, until we know the facts, all the talk of feral kids and dodgy youths hanging around is actually fairly offensive speculation and supposition - all in the service of a worldview that seems to view the streets of Walthamstow awash with evil criminal urchins. When the evidence simply doesn't bear that out. And, in the same vein, a lot of you seem to exist in a world where there's only black and white, right and wrong - either you're on the side of the righteous or you're a "hug a hoody" bleeding heart softy who just wants to forgive those nasty criminals.

Honestly - a local girl has suffered two sexual assaults. That's terrible - a tragedy. Going on here and stirring it up with no recourse to actual facts after that is just a horrible, negative way to go about dealing with the world around you.
Emmy, did you really want to be that offensive and insensitive? My kids actually do play in that park fairly often. It could have been my child. So let's have your conversation then... The point is that what we know points to the fact the assault didn't start in the park. LakeBreeze makes a valid point that it continued there - and that's bad. But again we don't know where in the park it happened, how loud or visible it was, how many other people were around, whether anyone did anything to stop it etc. There's way too much speculation going on about an actual serious assault on an actual girl. And that's not a good thing. Until we know the facts, we shouldn't assume who assaulted her, how, where or why. Evidence, facts, reality - sometimes people can make vast leaps of imagination without them. There's often a vast difference between what people tend to think is a serious crime hotspot and what actually is one. I don't know exactly how dangerous that park is after dark, for instance. All I do know is I've never witnessed any violent behaviour in there and my friends who live next to it are happy taking their kids there. Perhaps there's scores of muggings and assaults in there - but those parks that have had gang issues to that degree have generally been covered on here. I guess some of us see a bunch of teens in the park and think "ooh, dodgy, feral, evil" and some of us see a bunch of teens and think "nice that they have somewhere to go". The reality could be either - but without any actual evidence on how many people are mugged, assaulted or threatened in that park, you're really just speculating and scaremongering. As an example, I know that lots of people for ages were complaining about kids hanging around the central bus station. As a result police patrols were stepped up - but no actual crimes had been recorded. It was just people being nervy of lairy teens. The local police even talked to the teens involved - and again, they were hanging around the bus station because it was well lit and populated - they were scared of being mugged. The end result was precious police resources were diverted (foot patrols, for instance) to a place that didn't need those resources. In another story on here about the assault, one of the governors of the school next door says: "The park is generally not unsafe and is a really vibrant place for children and the local community. I don't think the park should be tarnished by this horrible, terrible, act of crime but I do think parks could be made to feel safer. "I've had lots of interaction with teenagers in the park and although they may be intimidating, I've had many positive experiences and they've always been polite and accommodating." So, again, until we know the facts, all the talk of feral kids and dodgy youths hanging around is actually fairly offensive speculation and supposition - all in the service of a worldview that seems to view the streets of Walthamstow awash with evil criminal urchins. When the evidence simply doesn't bear that out. And, in the same vein, a lot of you seem to exist in a world where there's only black and white, right and wrong - either you're on the side of the righteous or you're a "hug a hoody" bleeding heart softy who just wants to forgive those nasty criminals. Honestly - a local girl has suffered two sexual assaults. That's terrible - a tragedy. Going on here and stirring it up with no recourse to actual facts after that is just a horrible, negative way to go about dealing with the world around you. PsiMonk
  • Score: 22

12:31am Thu 31 Jul 14

Villagecranberry says...

PsiMonk wrote:
Emmy, did you really want to be that offensive and insensitive? My kids actually do play in that park fairly often. It could have been my child. So let's have your conversation then...

The point is that what we know points to the fact the assault didn't start in the park. LakeBreeze makes a valid point that it continued there - and that's bad. But again we don't know where in the park it happened, how loud or visible it was, how many other people were around, whether anyone did anything to stop it etc. There's way too much speculation going on about an actual serious assault on an actual girl. And that's not a good thing. Until we know the facts, we shouldn't assume who assaulted her, how, where or why.

Evidence, facts, reality - sometimes people can make vast leaps of imagination without them. There's often a vast difference between what people tend to think is a serious crime hotspot and what actually is one. I don't know exactly how dangerous that park is after dark, for instance. All I do know is I've never witnessed any violent behaviour in there and my friends who live next to it are happy taking their kids there. Perhaps there's scores of muggings and assaults in there - but those parks that have had gang issues to that degree have generally been covered on here.

I guess some of us see a bunch of teens in the park and think "ooh, dodgy, feral, evil" and some of us see a bunch of teens and think "nice that they have somewhere to go". The reality could be either - but without any actual evidence on how many people are mugged, assaulted or threatened in that park, you're really just speculating and scaremongering.

As an example, I know that lots of people for ages were complaining about kids hanging around the central bus station. As a result police patrols were stepped up - but no actual crimes had been recorded. It was just people being nervy of lairy teens. The local police even talked to the teens involved - and again, they were hanging around the bus station because it was well lit and populated - they were scared of being mugged. The end result was precious police resources were diverted (foot patrols, for instance) to a place that didn't need those resources.

In another story on here about the assault, one of the governors of the school next door says: "The park is generally not unsafe and is a really vibrant place for children and the local community. I don't think the park should be tarnished by this horrible, terrible, act of crime but I do think parks could be made to feel safer.
"I've had lots of interaction with teenagers in the park and although they may be intimidating, I've had many positive experiences and they've always been polite and accommodating."

So, again, until we know the facts, all the talk of feral kids and dodgy youths hanging around is actually fairly offensive speculation and supposition - all in the service of a worldview that seems to view the streets of Walthamstow awash with evil criminal urchins. When the evidence simply doesn't bear that out. And, in the same vein, a lot of you seem to exist in a world where there's only black and white, right and wrong - either you're on the side of the righteous or you're a "hug a hoody" bleeding heart softy who just wants to forgive those nasty criminals.

Honestly - a local girl has suffered two sexual assaults. That's terrible - a tragedy. Going on here and stirring it up with no recourse to actual facts after that is just a horrible, negative way to go about dealing with the world around you.
Your acceptance of drugs being smoke by kids as 'not a problem' is deplorable..
[quote][p][bold]PsiMonk[/bold] wrote: Emmy, did you really want to be that offensive and insensitive? My kids actually do play in that park fairly often. It could have been my child. So let's have your conversation then... The point is that what we know points to the fact the assault didn't start in the park. LakeBreeze makes a valid point that it continued there - and that's bad. But again we don't know where in the park it happened, how loud or visible it was, how many other people were around, whether anyone did anything to stop it etc. There's way too much speculation going on about an actual serious assault on an actual girl. And that's not a good thing. Until we know the facts, we shouldn't assume who assaulted her, how, where or why. Evidence, facts, reality - sometimes people can make vast leaps of imagination without them. There's often a vast difference between what people tend to think is a serious crime hotspot and what actually is one. I don't know exactly how dangerous that park is after dark, for instance. All I do know is I've never witnessed any violent behaviour in there and my friends who live next to it are happy taking their kids there. Perhaps there's scores of muggings and assaults in there - but those parks that have had gang issues to that degree have generally been covered on here. I guess some of us see a bunch of teens in the park and think "ooh, dodgy, feral, evil" and some of us see a bunch of teens and think "nice that they have somewhere to go". The reality could be either - but without any actual evidence on how many people are mugged, assaulted or threatened in that park, you're really just speculating and scaremongering. As an example, I know that lots of people for ages were complaining about kids hanging around the central bus station. As a result police patrols were stepped up - but no actual crimes had been recorded. It was just people being nervy of lairy teens. The local police even talked to the teens involved - and again, they were hanging around the bus station because it was well lit and populated - they were scared of being mugged. The end result was precious police resources were diverted (foot patrols, for instance) to a place that didn't need those resources. In another story on here about the assault, one of the governors of the school next door says: "The park is generally not unsafe and is a really vibrant place for children and the local community. I don't think the park should be tarnished by this horrible, terrible, act of crime but I do think parks could be made to feel safer. "I've had lots of interaction with teenagers in the park and although they may be intimidating, I've had many positive experiences and they've always been polite and accommodating." So, again, until we know the facts, all the talk of feral kids and dodgy youths hanging around is actually fairly offensive speculation and supposition - all in the service of a worldview that seems to view the streets of Walthamstow awash with evil criminal urchins. When the evidence simply doesn't bear that out. And, in the same vein, a lot of you seem to exist in a world where there's only black and white, right and wrong - either you're on the side of the righteous or you're a "hug a hoody" bleeding heart softy who just wants to forgive those nasty criminals. Honestly - a local girl has suffered two sexual assaults. That's terrible - a tragedy. Going on here and stirring it up with no recourse to actual facts after that is just a horrible, negative way to go about dealing with the world around you.[/p][/quote]Your acceptance of drugs being smoke by kids as 'not a problem' is deplorable.. Villagecranberry
  • Score: -11

4:29pm Mon 11 Aug 14

justiceforusall says...

WF need to get their act together - cameras should have been installed ages ago to stop these crimes happening again and again, - especially when a murder had occurred a few years back at Wood St Station, as the Council 'forgot' to switch the camera on! Maybe Cllrs should stop concentrating on where to place more CPZs and residential parking in the Borough and use money resourcefully for cameras to prevent crime!

And as for the police! I did attend one of their meetings a few years ago, and they didn't even have a clue as to where crime was actually happening in the borough. They even laughed at me when I advised them dogs should be on leads - a few years later, there is now a problem with dog attacks in the borough (which the council is not aiming to deal with effectively!)
WF need to get their act together - cameras should have been installed ages ago to stop these crimes happening again and again, - especially when a murder had occurred a few years back at Wood St Station, as the Council 'forgot' to switch the camera on! Maybe Cllrs should stop concentrating on where to place more CPZs and residential parking in the Borough and use money resourcefully for cameras to prevent crime! And as for the police! I did attend one of their meetings a few years ago, and they didn't even have a clue as to where crime was actually happening in the borough. They even laughed at me when I advised them dogs should be on leads - a few years later, there is now a problem with dog attacks in the borough (which the council is not aiming to deal with effectively!) justiceforusall
  • Score: 3

11:27pm Mon 18 Aug 14

wastelande17 says...

There are always groups of 17-20 year old men hanging around the Stoneydown swing parks chatting to under age girls. Why? They are clearly up to no good. This has been waiting to happen for a long time. Longfield Avenue also seems to attract mobs of abusive youths. I have been attacked in the park in the past and am very wary of walking through.
There are always groups of 17-20 year old men hanging around the Stoneydown swing parks chatting to under age girls. Why? They are clearly up to no good. This has been waiting to happen for a long time. Longfield Avenue also seems to attract mobs of abusive youths. I have been attacked in the park in the past and am very wary of walking through. wastelande17
  • Score: 1

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