Election 2014: Compare the parties seeking your vote in Sutton

This Is Local London: Election 2014: This is the current political map of Sutton going into Thursday's elections Election 2014: This is the current political map of Sutton going into Thursday's elections

This week Sutton councillors for the next four years will be chosen on Thursday's local elections. The Sutton Guardian brings you an overview of the main parties seeking your vote, and the smaller parties hoping to make a difference this time around.

Liberal Democrats - won 43 seats in 2010 (now has 41 councillors after one defection and one councillor having whip removed) - 48 per cent of the vote

This Is Local London: Ruth Dombey

Sutton Council leader Ruth Dombey

The Liberal Democrats have had control of Sutton Council since 1990 and polled almost half the vote at the last elections in 2010.

They are still the favourites to hold control of the council this year but they will see stiffer competition in wards all over the borough.

Council leader Councillor Ruth Dombey said the key points for her party are the continued fight to protect services at St Helier hospital, cutting unemployment, which she says is already low and will be driven down further by the planned life science cluster due to be built over the coming years, a plan to invest £19m into building affordable and social housing, and school building.

She added: "We're the only party working across all the borough. We've got councillors in all wards except one.

"I can't predict what will happen in the election because there are a lot of different parties, some we've never heard of, with candidates standing and this will have an effect.

"I do think it will be between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives again.

"What I will say is that it is really important that people come out and vote. Wards can be won and lost on just a handful of votes so we want people to come out and vote no matter who they vote for."

Conservatives - total seats won in 2010 - 11 (38 per cent of vote)

This Is Local London: Councillor Graham Whitham

Councillor Graham Whitham

Sutton Council was run by a Conservative majority until 1986 but since then the Tories have been unable to regain control.

At the last council election they won 11 seats but are hopeful they can make gains on the Liberal Democrats next week.

Councillor Graham Whitham said they have a list of ten points they are campaigning on, these include protecting services at St Helier, school building, bringing Tramlink to the borough through increased cooperation with London Mayor Boris Johnson, improving standards in care homes and cracking down on crime and anti-social behaviour - and area in which Coun Whitham said the council has become "complacent".

He added: "When the Liberal Democrats are entrenched in an area it is the devil's own job to get them out.

"Nothing will be easy, this area was part of the 'orange triangle' with Kingston and Richmond - but things are changing.

"One thing I will make clear is that no other parties [than the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats] will win seats. They may influence the outcome in wards, but they will not win seats."

Labour - seats at 2010 election - no seats (although gained a seat after Councillor John Keys defected from Liberal Democrats) - eight per cent of the vote

This Is Local London: Councillor joins Labour from Lib Dems after Beddington incinerator concerns

Councillor John Keys

Labour has not won any seats at the last two council elections but have gained a presence on the council since Councillor John Keys defected from the Liberal Democrats over his opposition to plans to build an incinerator in his Beddington ward.

In this year's election he is not standing in Beddington North but in St Helier instead - an area where Labour is optimistic of making inroads.

This year the Labour Party has 54 candidates spread over every borough for the first time in several years.

Coun Keys said: "The areas we're campaigning on are sorting out Sutton Housing Partnership, we've got the bedroom tax and the cost of living crisis that are affecting people all over Sutton, the incinerator for people in Beddington and Wandle Valley.

"We're hoping to make gains around Wandle Valley, Beddington North, St Helier, Sutton Central.

"When the Liberal Democrats [nationally] went into coalition with the Tories and broke the promise over tuition fees it damaged them, and then there's clause 119.

"If we able to win seats we will be able Labour values into the council. If we had that up to now it would have meant we could have had a proper debate on the incinerator. It would make it a lot easier for people to have a voice on the council and stop things being passed with just a nod from the Liberal Democrats."

Could the rise of UKIP and other smaller parties make a big difference?

In the last council election in 2010, parties other than the Liberal Democrats, Conservatives and Labour polled less than six per cent of the vote.

But this year, experts predict that will change thanks to the influence of the rising popularity of the UK Independence Party (UKIP) and the influence of other parties fielding candidates including the newly formed Keep Our St Helier Hospital (KOSHH) party and the Green Party.

In 2010, UKIP polled less than one per cent of the vote, but since then the party has increased in popularity. This year UKIP has 19 candidates standing and its local manifesto claims the party will reduce council tax, retain weekly bin collections and review traffic calming measures.

Among UKIP's candidates is prospective MP Bill Main-Ian, who will be standing in Beddington South.

The Green Party is fielding 18 candidates and one of its main campaign points is opposition to the plans to build an incinerator in Beddington.

KOSHH is a single issue party aiming to raise awareness of the threats facing St Helier Hospital. It is fielding four candidates around the borough.

Left wing organisation Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition has four candidates standing. Its main policy is an objection to any council cuts.

Richard Edmonds is standing as an independent councillor in Worcester Park, although he has previously been affiliated with far right group the National Front, which is not fielding any candidates at this year's elections.

He said his main campaign point is opposition to plans to open a mosque in Worcester Park.

Nationalist party the English Democrats have one candidate, as does the Christian Peoples Alliance Party.

 

Comments (17)

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12:14pm Mon 19 May 14

Michael Pantlin says...

I've already cast my vote for UKIP - time for change. I should though for sake of balance point out that other parties are available Ha ha
I've already cast my vote for UKIP - time for change. I should though for sake of balance point out that other parties are available Ha ha Michael Pantlin
  • Score: -4

1:15pm Mon 19 May 14

LiberalsOut says...

Well done Michael
Well done Michael LiberalsOut
  • Score: -8

5:01pm Mon 19 May 14

Binsanity says...

Not exactly an even exposay of all the parties concerned. Unbalanced reporting from the Guardian as usual.
Not exactly an even exposay of all the parties concerned. Unbalanced reporting from the Guardian as usual. Binsanity
  • Score: 8

3:06am Tue 20 May 14

gbzgc says...

The Liberals have been in power since 1990 and despite their appalling record the lemmings of Sutton keep voting them in no matter what. In fact in 2010 they increased their number of seats even after factual proof of major incompetence, arrogance and naivety.
I always thought it should be a great honour to be chosen to run our wonderful borough by the electorate, and it should be based on performance, prudence, creativity and ideas for the future. The Liberals have neither earnt that honour or learnt from their many mistakes, so surely it is time someone else who has passion and new ideas is finally given a chance to make Sutton great again.
Please people of Sutton, stop being lemmings this year and whoever you vote for please make sure it is not the LibDems as they have clearly not earnt the right to continue in power. They have let Sutton down.
The Liberals have been in power since 1990 and despite their appalling record the lemmings of Sutton keep voting them in no matter what. In fact in 2010 they increased their number of seats even after factual proof of major incompetence, arrogance and naivety. I always thought it should be a great honour to be chosen to run our wonderful borough by the electorate, and it should be based on performance, prudence, creativity and ideas for the future. The Liberals have neither earnt that honour or learnt from their many mistakes, so surely it is time someone else who has passion and new ideas is finally given a chance to make Sutton great again. Please people of Sutton, stop being lemmings this year and whoever you vote for please make sure it is not the LibDems as they have clearly not earnt the right to continue in power. They have let Sutton down. gbzgc
  • Score: 8

8:44am Tue 20 May 14

emelem says...

Couldn't have said it better, gbzgc.
Couldn't have said it better, gbzgc. emelem
  • Score: 0

10:57am Wed 21 May 14

Georgia Lewis says...

How about some information about the policies of Keep Our St Helier Hospital Party (KOSHH), the Greens and the Trade Union and Socialist Coalition? The Wimbledon Guardian gave a much more balanced account of the different parties and their policies on their website. It's not as if you need to worry quite so much about space considerations on a website.

I have been volunteering as the media officer for the KOSHH Party. As such, I'd like to share this information about the party's policies:

The KOSHH Party believes that the future of St Helier Hospital’s services is the biggest issue facing Sutton.

Without the hospital’s A&E, maternity, renal and children’s units, the impact across the whole borough will be enormous, especially on St George’s Hospital in Tooting.

This will have an impact on Sutton Council’s ability to provide health and community services that support the great work done by St Helier Hospital.

We are alarmed that Conservative candidates have told the public that St Helier Hospital is safe before the next raft of announcements about our local hospitals by the SW London Collaborative Commissioning Groups (SWLCCG) has been made.

Indeed, SWLCCG said in a joint statement in February that major service changes “are likely”. As well as cuts, this could also lead the further privatisation of hospital services.

There is no reason why Sutton councillors cannot unite in support of our local hospital and for the councillors from the major parties to lobby their colleagues in Westminster.

Along with ensuring our streets are safe and clean, that bin collections remain weekly, libraries remain open and public money is spent responsibly, it is essential for all Sutton councillors to get behind St Helier Hospital for the good of everyone's health."
How about some information about the policies of Keep Our St Helier Hospital Party (KOSHH), the Greens and the Trade Union and Socialist Coalition? The Wimbledon Guardian gave a much more balanced account of the different parties and their policies on their website. It's not as if you need to worry quite so much about space considerations on a website. I have been volunteering as the media officer for the KOSHH Party. As such, I'd like to share this information about the party's policies: The KOSHH Party believes that the future of St Helier Hospital’s services is the biggest issue facing Sutton. Without the hospital’s A&E, maternity, renal and children’s units, the impact across the whole borough will be enormous, especially on St George’s Hospital in Tooting. This will have an impact on Sutton Council’s ability to provide health and community services that support the great work done by St Helier Hospital. We are alarmed that Conservative candidates have told the public that St Helier Hospital is safe before the next raft of announcements about our local hospitals by the SW London Collaborative Commissioning Groups (SWLCCG) has been made. Indeed, SWLCCG said in a joint statement in February that major service changes “are likely”. As well as cuts, this could also lead the further privatisation of hospital services. There is no reason why Sutton councillors cannot unite in support of our local hospital and for the councillors from the major parties to lobby their colleagues in Westminster. Along with ensuring our streets are safe and clean, that bin collections remain weekly, libraries remain open and public money is spent responsibly, it is essential for all Sutton councillors to get behind St Helier Hospital for the good of everyone's health." Georgia Lewis
  • Score: 4

11:22am Wed 21 May 14

Forty_two says...

Very well said Georgia Lewis.

I notice that the above article names a number of candidates, but none of the KOSHH party candidates (six of them) are named, nor where they are standing.

I accept of course that the "big players" should rightly get their fair crack of the whip, but that's no reason not to devote a bit more space to the smaller parties such as KOSHH, the Green Party or TUSC.

I'd also like to understand why UKIP have been given as much space - let's not forget that UKIP do not have a single MP - something which is not true of the Green party for example.
Very well said Georgia Lewis. I notice that the above article names a number of candidates, but none of the KOSHH party candidates (six of them) are named, nor where they are standing. I accept of course that the "big players" should rightly get their fair crack of the whip, but that's no reason not to devote a bit more space to the smaller parties such as KOSHH, the Green Party or TUSC. I'd also like to understand why UKIP have been given as much space - let's not forget that UKIP do not have a single MP - something which is not true of the Green party for example. Forty_two
  • Score: 2

11:30am Wed 21 May 14

Georgia Lewis says...

Indeed, Forty_Two. Just so everyone is aware, the four KOSHH Party candidates for Sutton are Dr Tiz North, a consultant radiologist at St Helier Hospital (Sutton South Ward), Frances Cornford (Sutton West), Dave Ash (Cheam) and David Murray (Wallington South). If you care about the hospital and live in one of these wards, please consider giving one of your votes to your KOSHH Party candidate.

Alarmingly, this article tells you more about Richard Edmond's opposition to a mosque and extreme right wing political background than it does about four candidates committed to providing great health services for Sutton.
Indeed, Forty_Two. Just so everyone is aware, the four KOSHH Party candidates for Sutton are Dr Tiz North, a consultant radiologist at St Helier Hospital (Sutton South Ward), Frances Cornford (Sutton West), Dave Ash (Cheam) and David Murray (Wallington South). If you care about the hospital and live in one of these wards, please consider giving one of your votes to your KOSHH Party candidate. Alarmingly, this article tells you more about Richard Edmond's opposition to a mosque and extreme right wing political background than it does about four candidates committed to providing great health services for Sutton. Georgia Lewis
  • Score: 3

3:29pm Wed 21 May 14

David A says...

Well said Georgia Lewis and Forty_Two!! With so little support from the media I guess decent and sensible people will suffer the kind of local government the idiots who support the ConDems and UKIP deserve!
Well said Georgia Lewis and Forty_Two!! With so little support from the media I guess decent and sensible people will suffer the kind of local government the idiots who support the ConDems and UKIP deserve! David A
  • Score: 0

10:29am Thu 22 May 14

GreenBrown says...

Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally. All these little parties that have sprung up very recently will do, is probably ensure a Libdem victory and we already know how effective they are on this issue.

It's time for change, it's time for Ukip.

The NHS has gone wrong because this country has gone wrong. Fix the country, fix the problems. The usual lot have got us here and they won't sort it out. It will be more of the same or worse. To even contemplate closing down A&E at St. Helier shows that there are some serious problems in this country. Problems created by The Tories, New Labour and now this coalition. What will it take for the people of this country to wake up. It will soon be too late, if it isn't already.
Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally. All these little parties that have sprung up very recently will do, is probably ensure a Libdem victory and we already know how effective they are on this issue. It's time for change, it's time for Ukip. The NHS has gone wrong because this country has gone wrong. Fix the country, fix the problems. The usual lot have got us here and they won't sort it out. It will be more of the same or worse. To even contemplate closing down A&E at St. Helier shows that there are some serious problems in this country. Problems created by The Tories, New Labour and now this coalition. What will it take for the people of this country to wake up. It will soon be too late, if it isn't already. GreenBrown
  • Score: -7

10:36am Thu 22 May 14

JDavid7 says...

Can we have a London postcode please?
Can we have a London postcode please? JDavid7
  • Score: -4

10:45am Thu 22 May 14

BevHalstead says...

GreenBrown wrote:
Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally. All these little parties that have sprung up very recently will do, is probably ensure a Libdem victory and we already know how effective they are on this issue.

It's time for change, it's time for Ukip.

The NHS has gone wrong because this country has gone wrong. Fix the country, fix the problems. The usual lot have got us here and they won't sort it out. It will be more of the same or worse. To even contemplate closing down A&E at St. Helier shows that there are some serious problems in this country. Problems created by The Tories, New Labour and now this coalition. What will it take for the people of this country to wake up. It will soon be too late, if it isn't already.
And UKIPs solution is to increase privatisation of the NHS. That will not make it better. It will make it more expensive. It will mean less money for the A&E/Maternity/Childr
en's units at St Helier. The money would be there if HMRC concentrated more on those who avoid paying tax. People who set up off shore accounts like Nigel Farage are the traitors to this country.
[quote][p][bold]GreenBrown[/bold] wrote: Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally. All these little parties that have sprung up very recently will do, is probably ensure a Libdem victory and we already know how effective they are on this issue. It's time for change, it's time for Ukip. The NHS has gone wrong because this country has gone wrong. Fix the country, fix the problems. The usual lot have got us here and they won't sort it out. It will be more of the same or worse. To even contemplate closing down A&E at St. Helier shows that there are some serious problems in this country. Problems created by The Tories, New Labour and now this coalition. What will it take for the people of this country to wake up. It will soon be too late, if it isn't already.[/p][/quote]And UKIPs solution is to increase privatisation of the NHS. That will not make it better. It will make it more expensive. It will mean less money for the A&E/Maternity/Childr en's units at St Helier. The money would be there if HMRC concentrated more on those who avoid paying tax. People who set up off shore accounts like Nigel Farage are the traitors to this country. BevHalstead
  • Score: 7

11:34am Thu 22 May 14

Forty_two says...

BevHalstead wrote:
GreenBrown wrote:
Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally. All these little parties that have sprung up very recently will do, is probably ensure a Libdem victory and we already know how effective they are on this issue.

It's time for change, it's time for Ukip.

The NHS has gone wrong because this country has gone wrong. Fix the country, fix the problems. The usual lot have got us here and they won't sort it out. It will be more of the same or worse. To even contemplate closing down A&E at St. Helier shows that there are some serious problems in this country. Problems created by The Tories, New Labour and now this coalition. What will it take for the people of this country to wake up. It will soon be too late, if it isn't already.
And UKIPs solution is to increase privatisation of the NHS. That will not make it better. It will make it more expensive. It will mean less money for the A&E/Maternity/Ch
ildr
en's units at St Helier. The money would be there if HMRC concentrated more on those who avoid paying tax. People who set up off shore accounts like Nigel Farage are the traitors to this country.
Good points.

UKIP do indeed plan on further flogging off our national health service, so voting for them is like turkey's voting for Christmas IMHO.
[quote][p][bold]BevHalstead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]GreenBrown[/bold] wrote: Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally. All these little parties that have sprung up very recently will do, is probably ensure a Libdem victory and we already know how effective they are on this issue. It's time for change, it's time for Ukip. The NHS has gone wrong because this country has gone wrong. Fix the country, fix the problems. The usual lot have got us here and they won't sort it out. It will be more of the same or worse. To even contemplate closing down A&E at St. Helier shows that there are some serious problems in this country. Problems created by The Tories, New Labour and now this coalition. What will it take for the people of this country to wake up. It will soon be too late, if it isn't already.[/p][/quote]And UKIPs solution is to increase privatisation of the NHS. That will not make it better. It will make it more expensive. It will mean less money for the A&E/Maternity/Ch ildr en's units at St Helier. The money would be there if HMRC concentrated more on those who avoid paying tax. People who set up off shore accounts like Nigel Farage are the traitors to this country.[/p][/quote]Good points. UKIP do indeed plan on further flogging off our national health service, so voting for them is like turkey's voting for Christmas IMHO. Forty_two
  • Score: -1

11:54am Thu 22 May 14

GreenBrown says...

"People who set up off shore accounts like Nigel Farage are the traitors to this country."

A cheap shot and now irrelevant.....

From the BBC website....

He said this was something that tens of thousands of other people have done due to the unfairness of inheritance tax.

However, he said he soon began to feel "a bit uncomfortable" about setting up the fund and wound it up "many years ago" without "choosing to use the vehicle for anything".

"I should not have bought the policy...It was an error," he told the BBC, adding that he was a politician who was always prepared to hold his hands up when he had made a mistake.

"There was never an intention to avoid or evade tax on my part in any way at all," he added, saying he had, in fact, lost money as a result of the arrangement.

The UKIP leader said the secrecy surrounding family trusts meant they were not suitable for politicians, although he suggested that senior Conservative and Labour figures still used them to hold assets.

"I don't think you can be in public life and have a family trust. The public do expect very, very high standards."

The real traitors to this country have been New Labour. They actually set out to change and ruin this country. I'm sure the thousands of people they were 'intensely relaxed about getting filthy rich' had a fair few or these set up.

It's time for change and that isn't going to happen with Lib/Lab/Con.
"People who set up off shore accounts like Nigel Farage are the traitors to this country." A cheap shot and now irrelevant..... From the BBC website.... He said this was something that tens of thousands of other people have done due to the unfairness of inheritance tax. However, he said he soon began to feel "a bit uncomfortable" about setting up the fund and wound it up "many years ago" without "choosing to use the vehicle for anything". "I should not have bought the policy...It was an error," he told the BBC, adding that he was a politician who was always prepared to hold his hands up when he had made a mistake. "There was never an intention to avoid or evade tax on my part in any way at all," he added, saying he had, in fact, lost money as a result of the arrangement. The UKIP leader said the secrecy surrounding family trusts meant they were not suitable for politicians, although he suggested that senior Conservative and Labour figures still used them to hold assets. "I don't think you can be in public life and have a family trust. The public do expect very, very high standards." The real traitors to this country have been New Labour. They actually set out to change and ruin this country. I'm sure the thousands of people they were 'intensely relaxed about getting filthy rich' had a fair few or these set up. It's time for change and that isn't going to happen with Lib/Lab/Con. GreenBrown
  • Score: -4

12:11pm Thu 22 May 14

GreenBrown says...

"UKIP do indeed plan on further flogging off our national health service, so voting for them is like turkey's voting for Christmas IMHO."

They all do you. All of them are slowly privatising the NHS. Labour started it and the Coalition are running with it. I'm against privatisation, but I'd rather privatisation of the NHS, but get back control of our law making and border controls rather than privatisation and the status quo. If we leave Europe then maybe our democracy might be able to fight against all this privatisation. Our membership of the Eu has done so much damage to this country in ways you obviously can't grasp, but if we leave the EU, eventually our NHS will be free from Privatisation and things like the trains and utilities will one day come back to public ownership. Ukip probably wont be doing these things, but the new parties that will rise up will implement them. If we keep on with the usual 3 none of these things will happen. Who knows, the Labour party might actually become the party for the workers again and have some socialist ideas. instead of just drip feeding support to the poor by massive benefit handouts. Labour could have fought for the workers of this country and made a difference. Instead we got Blair and Brown. What a disaster that was.
"UKIP do indeed plan on further flogging off our national health service, so voting for them is like turkey's voting for Christmas IMHO." They all do you. All of them are slowly privatising the NHS. Labour started it and the Coalition are running with it. I'm against privatisation, but I'd rather privatisation of the NHS, but get back control of our law making and border controls rather than privatisation and the status quo. If we leave Europe then maybe our democracy might be able to fight against all this privatisation. Our membership of the Eu has done so much damage to this country in ways you obviously can't grasp, but if we leave the EU, eventually our NHS will be free from Privatisation and things like the trains and utilities will one day come back to public ownership. Ukip probably wont be doing these things, but the new parties that will rise up will implement them. If we keep on with the usual 3 none of these things will happen. Who knows, the Labour party might actually become the party for the workers again and have some socialist ideas. instead of just drip feeding support to the poor by massive benefit handouts. Labour could have fought for the workers of this country and made a difference. Instead we got Blair and Brown. What a disaster that was. GreenBrown
  • Score: -4

12:26pm Thu 22 May 14

Forty_two says...

GreenBrown wrote:
"UKIP do indeed plan on further flogging off our national health service, so voting for them is like turkey's voting for Christmas IMHO."

They all do you. All of them are slowly privatising the NHS. Labour started it and the Coalition are running with it. I'm against privatisation, but I'd rather privatisation of the NHS, but get back control of our law making and border controls rather than privatisation and the status quo. If we leave Europe then maybe our democracy might be able to fight against all this privatisation. Our membership of the Eu has done so much damage to this country in ways you obviously can't grasp, but if we leave the EU, eventually our NHS will be free from Privatisation and things like the trains and utilities will one day come back to public ownership. Ukip probably wont be doing these things, but the new parties that will rise up will implement them. If we keep on with the usual 3 none of these things will happen. Who knows, the Labour party might actually become the party for the workers again and have some socialist ideas. instead of just drip feeding support to the poor by massive benefit handouts. Labour could have fought for the workers of this country and made a difference. Instead we got Blair and Brown. What a disaster that was.
Where to start!

Labour did not start the privatisation of our health service, you'll find if you look into it that this happened during John Major's administration. But I do accept that New Labour continued this trend, and they will need to work hard to convince me that they've realised the error of their ways in this regard.

Personally, I think that the continued existence of our national health service is more important than almost anything else at the moment. A government has a few particularly important things they must provide for it's people, Health, Defence, Education and Infrastructure. We could argue the toss over the order of Defence, Education and Infrastructure, but I feel that the Health of the people must always be at the top of that list.

You also seem to be contradicting yourself though. Above, you said "Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally." - but in the above comment you say " but the new parties that will rise up will implement them. If we keep on with the usual 3 none of these things will happen.". I'm not sure how you can say and mean both of the above things.

As for Blair, I'd agree with you, but I don't think the same can be said for Brown. But however you cut it, the things THEY got wrong (and boy did Blair get some things wrong!) it's as nothing compared to the damage done and being done by the current administration.
[quote][p][bold]GreenBrown[/bold] wrote: "UKIP do indeed plan on further flogging off our national health service, so voting for them is like turkey's voting for Christmas IMHO." They all do you. All of them are slowly privatising the NHS. Labour started it and the Coalition are running with it. I'm against privatisation, but I'd rather privatisation of the NHS, but get back control of our law making and border controls rather than privatisation and the status quo. If we leave Europe then maybe our democracy might be able to fight against all this privatisation. Our membership of the Eu has done so much damage to this country in ways you obviously can't grasp, but if we leave the EU, eventually our NHS will be free from Privatisation and things like the trains and utilities will one day come back to public ownership. Ukip probably wont be doing these things, but the new parties that will rise up will implement them. If we keep on with the usual 3 none of these things will happen. Who knows, the Labour party might actually become the party for the workers again and have some socialist ideas. instead of just drip feeding support to the poor by massive benefit handouts. Labour could have fought for the workers of this country and made a difference. Instead we got Blair and Brown. What a disaster that was.[/p][/quote]Where to start! Labour did not start the privatisation of our health service, you'll find if you look into it that this happened during John Major's administration. But I do accept that New Labour continued this trend, and they will need to work hard to convince me that they've realised the error of their ways in this regard. Personally, I think that the continued existence of our national health service is more important than almost anything else at the moment. A government has a few particularly important things they must provide for it's people, Health, Defence, Education and Infrastructure. We could argue the toss over the order of Defence, Education and Infrastructure, but I feel that the Health of the people must always be at the top of that list. You also seem to be contradicting yourself though. Above, you said "Commendable as it is, setting up a Save St. Helier Party isn't going to achieve anything. It will take away valuable votes from parties that might actually have a chance of winning some seats and having some influence nationally." - but in the above comment you say " but the new parties that will rise up will implement them. If we keep on with the usual 3 none of these things will happen.". I'm not sure how you can say and mean both of the above things. As for Blair, I'd agree with you, but I don't think the same can be said for Brown. But however you cut it, the things THEY got wrong (and boy did Blair get some things wrong!) it's as nothing compared to the damage done and being done by the current administration. Forty_two
  • Score: 2

2:08pm Thu 22 May 14

GreenBrown says...

"You also seem to be contradicting yourself though"

I meant that if Ukip does manage to create its political earthquake then politics in this country will change and start to be relevant again. The old parties will be forced to change and I mean really change to remain relevant. At the moment the Tories and Labour are just reacting to pressure. They are not interested in peoples concerns over immigration etc. They just give it lip service to keep some votes. At the moment we essentially have 3 parties at the top who all, give or take the odd policy, agree with each other. Not one main party is calling for de-privatisation, even though a majority of the population would like that to happen. Politics in this country needs to change. Little parties standing now wont achieve much, but after the earthquake, they may have a voice in a new political landscape. They may even find that the issues that are important to them and no doubt many others, become part of the bigger parties manifesto's. Remember, Ukip are promising more referendums on more issues, which means more democracy.

Blair was awful on all counts, but Brown sold off a lot of our gold for a pittance and his record as chancellor was built on fudging the figures and keeping things off balance sheet. Also, the episode with the old lady he called a bigot, just because she had the audacity to say that mass immigration was causing some issues locally. The mask really did slip of that day and reveal much about the ruling elite. Sociopaths the lot of them.
"You also seem to be contradicting yourself though" I meant that if Ukip does manage to create its political earthquake then politics in this country will change and start to be relevant again. The old parties will be forced to change and I mean really change to remain relevant. At the moment the Tories and Labour are just reacting to pressure. They are not interested in peoples concerns over immigration etc. They just give it lip service to keep some votes. At the moment we essentially have 3 parties at the top who all, give or take the odd policy, agree with each other. Not one main party is calling for de-privatisation, even though a majority of the population would like that to happen. Politics in this country needs to change. Little parties standing now wont achieve much, but after the earthquake, they may have a voice in a new political landscape. They may even find that the issues that are important to them and no doubt many others, become part of the bigger parties manifesto's. Remember, Ukip are promising more referendums on more issues, which means more democracy. Blair was awful on all counts, but Brown sold off a lot of our gold for a pittance and his record as chancellor was built on fudging the figures and keeping things off balance sheet. Also, the episode with the old lady he called a bigot, just because she had the audacity to say that mass immigration was causing some issues locally. The mask really did slip of that day and reveal much about the ruling elite. Sociopaths the lot of them. GreenBrown
  • Score: -8

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