Robert Andrezej Duleba prosecuted for dropping cigarette butt in High Street, Walthamstow

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A smoker has been forced to pay £860 after refusing to pay a fine issued for dropping a cigarette butt.

Robert Andrezej Duleba, 39, of Browning Road in Leytonstone, was handed an £80 fixed penalty notice (FPN) in September last year following the incident in High Street, Walthamstow.

He refused to pay the penalty issued by the council enforcement officers and the matter was referred to Thames Magistrates’ Court last month.

The fine was increased to £400 and he was ordered to pay £460 sosts.

Councillor Clyde Loakes, deputy leader and cabinet member for environment, said: “I would suggest anyone who is in the habit of doing that might think twice now knowing that at the least they will be hit with an £80 FPN, and at worst they could be over £800 out of pocket over just a single cigarette butt.

“In short, it’s lazy, disrespectful and sets a bad example, and for this individual, it is also very expensive.”

The council was the first local authority in the country to introduce FPNs for spitting and urination last year.

Since then 61 FPNs have been issued for the offences and three successful prosecutions have been brought.

Comments (19)

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4:11pm Mon 3 Mar 14

chingford lad says...

I`m sure dropping litter is not a prision offence so if he does not pay the fine what happens then?
I`m sure dropping litter is not a prision offence so if he does not pay the fine what happens then? chingford lad
  • Score: 3

4:19pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Helen, Walthamstow says...

Have you noticed that many of the litter bins in the High Street seem to have vanished?

It would be sensible of the council to ensure that it held back on handing out fines for dropping cigarettes, gum or any other litter until it has enough bins in place to encourage their use.
Have you noticed that many of the litter bins in the High Street seem to have vanished? It would be sensible of the council to ensure that it held back on handing out fines for dropping cigarettes, gum or any other litter until it has enough bins in place to encourage their use. Helen, Walthamstow
  • Score: 13

5:06pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Villagecranberry says...

It does not matter what they fine him, he refuses to pay and is being made a scapegoat for the millions of others who drop fag ends and worse litter than this all over the place, especially during the night and out of car windows, mattresses, fridges and everything else. The Bakers Arms side streets are notorious for this and you will hardly ever see a warden unless it is a photo opporunity for Loakes to pose with 20 of them. This is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut and like Helen says where are the bins? Also, most of the bins at the Bakers Arms are overflowing throughout the day. Typical LBWF play unfair. They close all the public loos then blame people caught short for urinating in the street. People who drop litter need to be educated not to. Most people do not because they were brought up not to drop litter.
It does not matter what they fine him, he refuses to pay and is being made a scapegoat for the millions of others who drop fag ends and worse litter than this all over the place, especially during the night and out of car windows, mattresses, fridges and everything else. The Bakers Arms side streets are notorious for this and you will hardly ever see a warden unless it is a photo opporunity for Loakes to pose with 20 of them. This is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut and like Helen says where are the bins? Also, most of the bins at the Bakers Arms are overflowing throughout the day. Typical LBWF play unfair. They close all the public loos then blame people caught short for urinating in the street. People who drop litter need to be educated not to. Most people do not because they were brought up not to drop litter. Villagecranberry
  • Score: 1

5:46pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Thunderbird4 says...

Exactly, Cranberry. Council knock down the toilets then fine people for being caught out. And, where are there bins for cigarette ends? Why do the people who are caught and fined seem to have non-English names - an easy target.

Why not give people a warning, a leaflet, written in many languages, just like the council send out to its tenants?

Perhaps the council would like to offer me a job; help prevent them getting bad publicity? How about it mr. Robbins?
Exactly, Cranberry. Council knock down the toilets then fine people for being caught out. And, where are there bins for cigarette ends? Why do the people who are caught and fined seem to have non-English names - an easy target. Why not give people a warning, a leaflet, written in many languages, just like the council send out to its tenants? Perhaps the council would like to offer me a job; help prevent them getting bad publicity? How about it mr. Robbins? Thunderbird4
  • Score: 4

10:42pm Mon 3 Mar 14

LeytonstoneLad says...

Let's not pretend that increasing the number of rubbish bins on the streets would stop anti-social people from littering. It's become an almost daily occurrence that I witness someone dropping rubbish on the street when there is a bin clearly within view. It's pure laziness and a general lack of concern for others. I hope Mr. Duleba is one of many who learns a painful lesson.
Let's not pretend that increasing the number of rubbish bins on the streets would stop anti-social people from littering. It's become an almost daily occurrence that I witness someone dropping rubbish on the street when there is a bin clearly within view. It's pure laziness and a general lack of concern for others. I hope Mr. Duleba is one of many who learns a painful lesson. LeytonstoneLad
  • Score: 4

10:57pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Thunderbird4 says...

LeytonstoneLad wrote:
Let's not pretend that increasing the number of rubbish bins on the streets would stop anti-social people from littering. It's become an almost daily occurrence that I witness someone dropping rubbish on the street when there is a bin clearly within view. It's pure laziness and a general lack of concern for others. I hope Mr. Duleba is one of many who learns a painful lesson.
It's a lack of education. if you teach children the right way, tell them why they should do something, what the benefits are, they will learn the lesson. The people who have been fined were probably never aware of the local by-laws.
[quote][p][bold]LeytonstoneLad[/bold] wrote: Let's not pretend that increasing the number of rubbish bins on the streets would stop anti-social people from littering. It's become an almost daily occurrence that I witness someone dropping rubbish on the street when there is a bin clearly within view. It's pure laziness and a general lack of concern for others. I hope Mr. Duleba is one of many who learns a painful lesson.[/p][/quote]It's a lack of education. if you teach children the right way, tell them why they should do something, what the benefits are, they will learn the lesson. The people who have been fined were probably never aware of the local by-laws. Thunderbird4
  • Score: -9

11:13pm Mon 3 Mar 14

LeytonstoneLad says...

Thunderbird4 wrote:
LeytonstoneLad wrote:
Let's not pretend that increasing the number of rubbish bins on the streets would stop anti-social people from littering. It's become an almost daily occurrence that I witness someone dropping rubbish on the street when there is a bin clearly within view. It's pure laziness and a general lack of concern for others. I hope Mr. Duleba is one of many who learns a painful lesson.
It's a lack of education. if you teach children the right way, tell them why they should do something, what the benefits are, they will learn the lesson. The people who have been fined were probably never aware of the local by-laws.
At every school I've ever attended, I've been instructed to throw rubbish in the rubbish bin, not leave it on the floor or street for someone else to clean up. In every one of the many world cities I've visited, there are rubbish bins that people are expected to use. People aren't leaving rubbish in the street because they don't understand their social responsibilities. They're doing it because they are lazy and because they think they can get away with it. The only way to teach them a lesson is to hit them in the wallet.
[quote][p][bold]Thunderbird4[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LeytonstoneLad[/bold] wrote: Let's not pretend that increasing the number of rubbish bins on the streets would stop anti-social people from littering. It's become an almost daily occurrence that I witness someone dropping rubbish on the street when there is a bin clearly within view. It's pure laziness and a general lack of concern for others. I hope Mr. Duleba is one of many who learns a painful lesson.[/p][/quote]It's a lack of education. if you teach children the right way, tell them why they should do something, what the benefits are, they will learn the lesson. The people who have been fined were probably never aware of the local by-laws.[/p][/quote]At every school I've ever attended, I've been instructed to throw rubbish in the rubbish bin, not leave it on the floor or street for someone else to clean up. In every one of the many world cities I've visited, there are rubbish bins that people are expected to use. People aren't leaving rubbish in the street because they don't understand their social responsibilities. They're doing it because they are lazy and because they think they can get away with it. The only way to teach them a lesson is to hit them in the wallet. LeytonstoneLad
  • Score: 7

11:47pm Mon 3 Mar 14

Thunderbird4 says...

It was a cigarette butt.
We English have been throwing our dog-ends in the streets for decades because we were not told to put them in street ashtrays, which as far as I'm aware, didn't exist, until the recent ban in pubs, etc., when pubs started putting "street ashtrays", on the wall of the establishment. Wether or not this country is the first to champion street cleanliness with regard to cigarette ends; there has not been a vigorous campaign for education of this new law within the borough; perhaps the man who was fined could contest this - inadequate education of the law in local and national press and TV, before making it LAW.
It was a cigarette butt. We English have been throwing our dog-ends in the streets for decades because we were not told to put them in street ashtrays, which as far as I'm aware, didn't exist, until the recent ban in pubs, etc., when pubs started putting "street ashtrays", on the wall of the establishment. Wether or not this country is the first to champion street cleanliness with regard to cigarette ends; there has not been a vigorous campaign for education of this new law within the borough; perhaps the man who was fined could contest this - inadequate education of the law in local and national press and TV, before making it LAW. Thunderbird4
  • Score: -10

7:24am Tue 4 Mar 14

stickmanny says...

All anyone needs to know about the law is that ignorance is no defence.
All anyone needs to know about the law is that ignorance is no defence. stickmanny
  • Score: 5

11:39am Tue 4 Mar 14

mdj says...

'All anyone needs to know about the law is that ignorance is no defence.'

Perhaps you should remind the 6,200 people who have suddenly received tickets at the Green Man roundabout. These people have votes.

The Council's own posters state that spitting and urination are anti-social and dirty, but are careful not to say that they are illegal. Nowhere in this borough do any notices say that they are.
Why might that be?

The article doesn't tell us whether the accused understood the charge, or was represented or even present in court, but it's a fair bet he doesn't speak good English.
Since one is under no obligation to engage in conversation with enforcement officers, it's hard to see how one is under any obligation to handle a document they may try and give you, let alone give an address.

Having different bodies of uniformed officials with uncertain powers over the citizen was a characteristic of Bismarck's Germany, and has no role in a place where the Rule of Law applies.
It's very noticeable how there's an upturn in petty bullying when Cllr Loakes is seeking reelection.
Is he 'leading beyond authority' again? Or is this some sort of compulsive disorder? This is the man who wasted £15,000 of our money trying to persecute a local businesswoman for the simple common sense of recycling a cardboard box.
What we need to hear from Cllr Loakes is what happened to the £400,000 of our money that went missing from the E11BID Company of which he was a director.
A lot was paid out to 'consultants'. Was one of those CWL Consulting?

Seriously, can you imagine anyone noticing a dropped dog-end in the Market at a time when litter is being thrown off the stalls in all directions, which we all know will be swept up at the end of the day?
'All anyone needs to know about the law is that ignorance is no defence.' Perhaps you should remind the 6,200 people who have suddenly received tickets at the Green Man roundabout. These people have votes. The Council's own posters state that spitting and urination are anti-social and dirty, but are careful not to say that they are illegal. Nowhere in this borough do any notices say that they are. Why might that be? The article doesn't tell us whether the accused understood the charge, or was represented or even present in court, but it's a fair bet he doesn't speak good English. Since one is under no obligation to engage in conversation with enforcement officers, it's hard to see how one is under any obligation to handle a document they may try and give you, let alone give an address. Having different bodies of uniformed officials with uncertain powers over the citizen was a characteristic of Bismarck's Germany, and has no role in a place where the Rule of Law applies. It's very noticeable how there's an upturn in petty bullying when Cllr Loakes is seeking reelection. Is he 'leading beyond authority' again? Or is this some sort of compulsive disorder? This is the man who wasted £15,000 of our money trying to persecute a local businesswoman for the simple common sense of recycling a cardboard box. What we need to hear from Cllr Loakes is what happened to the £400,000 of our money that went missing from the E11BID Company of which he was a director. A lot was paid out to 'consultants'. Was one of those CWL Consulting? Seriously, can you imagine anyone noticing a dropped dog-end in the Market at a time when litter is being thrown off the stalls in all directions, which we all know will be swept up at the end of the day? mdj
  • Score: 3

12:18pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Sam59y says...

I think we need the "Keep Britain Tidy" ads back again, it may help make some people more aware of the problem (last week I witnessed 3 youths eating take away chicken and dropping the empty box on the ground 2 yards from a recycle bin in the shopping Mall Selborne Walk. I have lived in Walthamstow 50+years and have watched as the public toilets disappeared and litter bins (used to be on lampposts) taken away. All around I see people blowing their noses and nowhere to discard the soiled tissues. Are we being encouraged to break the law so Local Authority can rake in the fines?
I think we need the "Keep Britain Tidy" ads back again, it may help make some people more aware of the problem (last week I witnessed 3 youths eating take away chicken and dropping the empty box on the ground 2 yards from a recycle bin in the shopping Mall Selborne Walk. I have lived in Walthamstow 50+years and have watched as the public toilets disappeared and litter bins (used to be on lampposts) taken away. All around I see people blowing their noses and nowhere to discard the soiled tissues. Are we being encouraged to break the law so Local Authority can rake in the fines? Sam59y
  • Score: 2

12:34pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Thunderbird4 says...

About six years ago, a Redbridge, PSO, gave a £75 ticket to a friend for this proposed offence. Through a solicitors letter, my friend refused to pay and they heard no more. The Officer, must have been deliberately recruited for his ignorance and stupidity, because he was incapable of seeing the market rubbish thrown in a public place or even the dog-ends that were already there. (Which one is mine, officer?) The people who are recruited to take on this type of job need one ability only, and that is to tick a box.

mdj is right, a fascist state of ignorance is approaching; we should all beware.
About six years ago, a Redbridge, PSO, gave a £75 ticket to a friend for this proposed offence. Through a solicitors letter, my friend refused to pay and they heard no more. The Officer, must have been deliberately recruited for his ignorance and stupidity, because he was incapable of seeing the market rubbish thrown in a public place or even the dog-ends that were already there. (Which one is mine, officer?) The people who are recruited to take on this type of job need one ability only, and that is to tick a box. mdj is right, a fascist state of ignorance is approaching; we should all beware. Thunderbird4
  • Score: 1

2:29pm Tue 4 Mar 14

stickmanny says...

mdj wrote:
'All anyone needs to know about the law is that ignorance is no defence.'

Perhaps you should remind the 6,200 people who have suddenly received tickets at the Green Man roundabout. These people have votes.

The Council's own posters state that spitting and urination are anti-social and dirty, but are careful not to say that they are illegal. Nowhere in this borough do any notices say that they are.
Why might that be?

The article doesn't tell us whether the accused understood the charge, or was represented or even present in court, but it's a fair bet he doesn't speak good English.
Since one is under no obligation to engage in conversation with enforcement officers, it's hard to see how one is under any obligation to handle a document they may try and give you, let alone give an address.

Having different bodies of uniformed officials with uncertain powers over the citizen was a characteristic of Bismarck's Germany, and has no role in a place where the Rule of Law applies.
It's very noticeable how there's an upturn in petty bullying when Cllr Loakes is seeking reelection.
Is he 'leading beyond authority' again? Or is this some sort of compulsive disorder? This is the man who wasted £15,000 of our money trying to persecute a local businesswoman for the simple common sense of recycling a cardboard box.
What we need to hear from Cllr Loakes is what happened to the £400,000 of our money that went missing from the E11BID Company of which he was a director.
A lot was paid out to 'consultants'. Was one of those CWL Consulting?

Seriously, can you imagine anyone noticing a dropped dog-end in the Market at a time when litter is being thrown off the stalls in all directions, which we all know will be swept up at the end of the day?
What is this idea you have about immigrants (that may or may not have good English) being above the law?

Dropping a cigarette butt in the street is an offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. Doesn't matter if there are no bins, doesn't matter what street, doesn't matter where you're from.

All the other stuff you mention (and have mentioned many times before) is beside the point.
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: 'All anyone needs to know about the law is that ignorance is no defence.' Perhaps you should remind the 6,200 people who have suddenly received tickets at the Green Man roundabout. These people have votes. The Council's own posters state that spitting and urination are anti-social and dirty, but are careful not to say that they are illegal. Nowhere in this borough do any notices say that they are. Why might that be? The article doesn't tell us whether the accused understood the charge, or was represented or even present in court, but it's a fair bet he doesn't speak good English. Since one is under no obligation to engage in conversation with enforcement officers, it's hard to see how one is under any obligation to handle a document they may try and give you, let alone give an address. Having different bodies of uniformed officials with uncertain powers over the citizen was a characteristic of Bismarck's Germany, and has no role in a place where the Rule of Law applies. It's very noticeable how there's an upturn in petty bullying when Cllr Loakes is seeking reelection. Is he 'leading beyond authority' again? Or is this some sort of compulsive disorder? This is the man who wasted £15,000 of our money trying to persecute a local businesswoman for the simple common sense of recycling a cardboard box. What we need to hear from Cllr Loakes is what happened to the £400,000 of our money that went missing from the E11BID Company of which he was a director. A lot was paid out to 'consultants'. Was one of those CWL Consulting? Seriously, can you imagine anyone noticing a dropped dog-end in the Market at a time when litter is being thrown off the stalls in all directions, which we all know will be swept up at the end of the day?[/p][/quote]What is this idea you have about immigrants (that may or may not have good English) being above the law? Dropping a cigarette butt in the street is an offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. Doesn't matter if there are no bins, doesn't matter what street, doesn't matter where you're from. All the other stuff you mention (and have mentioned many times before) is beside the point. stickmanny
  • Score: 4

3:46pm Tue 4 Mar 14

chrise17 says...

Dog walkers must carry a bag to remove the animals waste so why not a smoker be forced to take his/her rubbish home with them?
These things are constantly thrown on the roads and streets without thought.
Dog walkers must carry a bag to remove the animals waste so why not a smoker be forced to take his/her rubbish home with them? These things are constantly thrown on the roads and streets without thought. chrise17
  • Score: 5

4:35pm Tue 4 Mar 14

SillyCnut says...

I have seen umpteen fines handed out in Hammersmith for exactly the same reason. It does eventually make a difference.
I have seen umpteen fines handed out in Hammersmith for exactly the same reason. It does eventually make a difference. SillyCnut
  • Score: 4

7:52pm Tue 4 Mar 14

mdj says...

'What is this idea you have about immigrants (that may or may not have good English) being above the law?'
Let me simplify it for you. My point about the rule of law - which bears repeating every time the council behave in this way - is that people appear to be being singled out of the basis of their being easy targets.

The market is a place where vast amounts of rubbish are dropped and cleared up every day.
To pursue someone through the courts for this drop in a bucket is the same disordered behaviour as persecuting someone for reusing a cardboard box. How much did this prosecution cost us , compared with the cost of a few more litter bins?
'What is this idea you have about immigrants (that may or may not have good English) being above the law?' Let me simplify it for you. My point about the rule of law - which bears repeating every time the council behave in this way - is that people appear to be being singled out of the basis of their being easy targets. The market is a place where vast amounts of rubbish are dropped and cleared up every day. To pursue someone through the courts for this drop in a bucket is the same disordered behaviour as persecuting someone for reusing a cardboard box. How much did this prosecution cost us , compared with the cost of a few more litter bins? mdj
  • Score: -1

8:26pm Tue 4 Mar 14

stickmanny says...

I think the council should be going for the easy targets and the hard targets, though I expect the hard targets cost considerably more to prosecute.

You seem to be saying its ok to drop litter under certain circumstances. It isn't.
I think the council should be going for the easy targets and the hard targets, though I expect the hard targets cost considerably more to prosecute. You seem to be saying its ok to drop litter under certain circumstances. It isn't. stickmanny
  • Score: 2

10:53pm Tue 4 Mar 14

mdj says...

'You seem to be saying its ok to drop litter under certain circumstances'

It's a matter of proportion; none seems to have been shown here.

I'm much less worried by a single dropped dog-end than a branch of a supposedly -democratic state that regularly tells lies, breaks the law and steals money.
'You seem to be saying its ok to drop litter under certain circumstances' It's a matter of proportion; none seems to have been shown here. I'm much less worried by a single dropped dog-end than a branch of a supposedly -democratic state that regularly tells lies, breaks the law and steals money. mdj
  • Score: -2

12:11am Wed 5 Mar 14

Thunderbird4 says...

It's OK to drop litter in wartime. Planes dropped leaflets and aluminium strips.

In the 50's you'd see small groups of men, regularly sweeping the streets. Poster campaigns, to, Keep Britain Tidy, worked and the profession of, Road Sweeper, died out. (My step-mother used to throw paper in the gutter, saying it gave men a job; personally, I think she was just a lazy **** and couldn't be bothered to take the rubbish home and bin it.)

The modern way of cleaning the E17 High Street, is with the rideable machine that misses a lot of dogends and gets in people's way by being too large. Whoever thought that one up must have been on drugs. And whoever decided to manufacture it must have had more money than sense. A simple broom works best but doesn't pay well.
It's OK to drop litter in wartime. Planes dropped leaflets and aluminium strips. In the 50's you'd see small groups of men, regularly sweeping the streets. Poster campaigns, to, Keep Britain Tidy, worked and the profession of, Road Sweeper, died out. (My step-mother used to throw paper in the gutter, saying it gave men a job; personally, I think she was just a lazy **** and couldn't be bothered to take the rubbish home and bin it.) The modern way of cleaning the E17 High Street, is with the rideable machine that misses a lot of dogends and gets in people's way by being too large. Whoever thought that one up must have been on drugs. And whoever decided to manufacture it must have had more money than sense. A simple broom works best but doesn't pay well. Thunderbird4
  • Score: 1

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