Transport for London considers right turn ban for Twickenham

King Street: Facing changes

King Street: Facing changes

First published in News This Is Local London: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter

The introduction of a restricted right-turn on a Twickenham road will only take place if “absolutely required”, according to Richmond Council.

The council is currently transforming the town centre but Transport for London (TfL) is weighing up a peak-time ban on right turns out of King Street.

TfL may decide a peak-time restriction at the junction for King Street, Water Lane and Church Street would be needed to maintain the rush hour traffic flows.

Councillor Chris Harrison, cabinet member for highways and transport, said: “One of the key priorities for the area is to alleviate the traffic in King Street.

“Conscious of the need for residents to have access to their properties on the Embankment and Eel Pie Island, we have continued our monitoring of traffic to see if the peak-time restriction from King Street is actually needed.

“We will continue to monitor the situation carefully and only introduce the peak hour restrictions if absolutely necessary.”

He said in the event that restrictions were imposed, residents affected would have alternative access arrangements and that there were no plans to permanently close Water Lane.

Comments (18)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

9:31am Wed 12 Feb 14

Dan Hampton Hill says...

Would this not just lead to people turning around in side streets, potentially causing more traffic problems for those who wish to turn into the streets while cars turn around?
Would this not just lead to people turning around in side streets, potentially causing more traffic problems for those who wish to turn into the streets while cars turn around? Dan Hampton Hill
  • Score: 3

5:57pm Wed 12 Feb 14

alex twickenham says...

Has there ever been a problem caused by traffic turning right from King St into Church St and Water Lane? In the 30 odd years I have lived here, the only hold-ups I have ever observed have been caused by fleets of buses pulling out from the stops outside Poundland etc to turn right into York St and confusion about the variable operating times of the bus lanes - let's have consistency then everyone knows where they stand - how many drivers use the Cross Deep and King St bus lanes when they are not restricted? hardly any - what a waste of space!
I'm sure the cycling activist lobby will be upset by this comment, so why not give those of us who choose to cycle in harmony with motorists a few armadillo's or whatever to protect us at vulnerable points where most of us get off our bikes and walk in the interests of self-preservation?
Alex.
PS: Is someone mucking about with the traffic light timing at the junction of Cross Deep and King St yet again? - it certainly looks like it. Remember what has happened to those suspected of mucking about with the George Washington Bridge in New York!
Has there ever been a problem caused by traffic turning right from King St into Church St and Water Lane? In the 30 odd years I have lived here, the only hold-ups I have ever observed have been caused by fleets of buses pulling out from the stops outside Poundland etc to turn right into York St and confusion about the variable operating times of the bus lanes - let's have consistency then everyone knows where they stand - how many drivers use the Cross Deep and King St bus lanes when they are not restricted? hardly any - what a waste of space! I'm sure the cycling activist lobby will be upset by this comment, so why not give those of us who choose to cycle in harmony with motorists a few armadillo's or whatever to protect us at vulnerable points where most of us get off our bikes and walk in the interests of self-preservation? Alex. PS: Is someone mucking about with the traffic light timing at the junction of Cross Deep and King St yet again? - it certainly looks like it. Remember what has happened to those suspected of mucking about with the George Washington Bridge in New York! alex twickenham
  • Score: 8

7:36pm Wed 12 Feb 14

Julie Hill says...

Hear Hear Alex! In the 23 years I have lived and driven through Twickenham and turned right down Church Street, I have never known it cause any problems for traffic behind me. I totally agree that the problems around this area are caused by the buses veering across traffic and then blocking the entire road.

With regard to the messed up phasing at the junction of Cross Deep - yes this is as a result of the temporary traffic lights and works. Having spent weeks liaising with the Council and Police to get the traffic lights phased so cars could legally (well just about) turn right from Heath Road without risking pedestrians, the phasing is now back to how it was and drivers turning left by Johnsons shoe shop are doing so on red lights.

Richmond Council - if you read this - please ask TFL to re-set the lights so that they turn RED earlier for traffic approaching from Kind Street, to allow drivers to safely make the right turn from Heath Road before the pedestrian crossing changes to green.

Of course it would be ideal to have a feeder light at this junction, but despite having been promised this going back to when David Trigg was a Riverside Councillor, I doubt if it has been factored into the York Stone Town Centre makeover.....
Hear Hear Alex! In the 23 years I have lived and driven through Twickenham and turned right down Church Street, I have never known it cause any problems for traffic behind me. I totally agree that the problems around this area are caused by the buses veering across traffic and then blocking the entire road. With regard to the messed up phasing at the junction of Cross Deep - yes this is as a result of the temporary traffic lights and works. Having spent weeks liaising with the Council and Police to get the traffic lights phased so cars could legally (well just about) turn right from Heath Road without risking pedestrians, the phasing is now back to how it was and drivers turning left by Johnsons shoe shop are doing so on red lights. Richmond Council - if you read this - please ask TFL to re-set the lights so that they turn RED earlier for traffic approaching from Kind Street, to allow drivers to safely make the right turn from Heath Road before the pedestrian crossing changes to green. Of course it would be ideal to have a feeder light at this junction, but despite having been promised this going back to when David Trigg was a Riverside Councillor, I doubt if it has been factored into the York Stone Town Centre makeover..... Julie Hill
  • Score: 8

9:59am Thu 13 Feb 14

illynillyt says...

.This isn't really "news" as such. I wonder why it has been raised now? It was first announced around April 2013, and is described in the booklet "Twickenham Rediscovered" It would be for peak hours only. TfL appear to be the final arbiters
.This isn't really "news" as such. I wonder why it has been raised now? It was first announced around April 2013, and is described in the booklet "Twickenham Rediscovered" It would be for peak hours only. TfL appear to be the final arbiters illynillyt
  • Score: -4

3:18pm Thu 13 Feb 14

alex twickenham says...

I'm not really fussed whether this is or is not news as Illynit points out.

It's in the paper so there must be a reason - is it under review or have second thoughts been exercised? Illynit points out that the restriction is for peak hours only - therein lies yet another potential congestion issue. Not only do we already have fleets of buses blocking both lanes of King St trying to get into the York St lane, we will now have all the cars and vans trying to get out of the Water Lane lane having discovered too late that a right turn is banned in peak hours. A guaranteed and unnecessary increase in congestion!
Let's not forget that many who visit Church St and the Riverside by car may not be local and will undoubtedly be put off returning if they risk being fined by the inevitable all seeing CCTV cameras. Should they be discouraged by so many variable and confusing traffic controls? I don't think so.
I haven't added it up but there are at least 6 bus lanes in our little town/village - most of which have different hours of operation, two yellow box junctions, cycle lanes, some of which are advisory, at least one of which is mandatory. Parking meters which are only usable at certain times, at other times, the few cars that park there cause congestion when buses have to pull out - why are there seemingly pointless bays towards the end of Cross Deep?
No wonder we are blighted by a forest of galvanized poles. At least it keeps traffic, street scene planners, pole manufacturers and erectors in a job! Sadly, whether the cost is down to the Council or TfL you and I pay for it all.
Alex
PS: My thanks to Julie Hill for her supportive comment.
I'm not really fussed whether this is or is not news as Illynit points out. It's in the paper so there must be a reason - is it under review or have second thoughts been exercised? Illynit points out that the restriction is for peak hours only - therein lies yet another potential congestion issue. Not only do we already have fleets of buses blocking both lanes of King St trying to get into the York St lane, we will now have all the cars and vans trying to get out of the Water Lane lane having discovered too late that a right turn is banned in peak hours. A guaranteed and unnecessary increase in congestion! Let's not forget that many who visit Church St and the Riverside by car may not be local and will undoubtedly be put off returning if they risk being fined by the inevitable all seeing CCTV cameras. Should they be discouraged by so many variable and confusing traffic controls? I don't think so. I haven't added it up but there are at least 6 bus lanes in our little town/village - most of which have different hours of operation, two yellow box junctions, cycle lanes, some of which are advisory, at least one of which is mandatory. Parking meters which are only usable at certain times, at other times, the few cars that park there cause congestion when buses have to pull out - why are there seemingly pointless bays towards the end of Cross Deep? No wonder we are blighted by a forest of galvanized poles. At least it keeps traffic, street scene planners, pole manufacturers and erectors in a job! Sadly, whether the cost is down to the Council or TfL you and I pay for it all. Alex PS: My thanks to Julie Hill for her supportive comment. alex twickenham
  • Score: 3

4:47pm Thu 13 Feb 14

illynillyt says...

i was just wondering if there could possibly be a hidden agenda in the timing of this news item, as the time for useful comment was last summer. Perish the thought!
i was just wondering if there could possibly be a hidden agenda in the timing of this news item, as the time for useful comment was last summer. Perish the thought! illynillyt
  • Score: -7

5:55pm Thu 13 Feb 14

Concerned_Resident says...

I suspect that the reason turning right doesn't cause a problem at the moment is because you have a lane in the middle of the street, meaning two lanes of traffic can pass when someone is turning right into Church Street. It's my understanding that this lane in the middle of the street is to go in order to make more pavement space. So yes, I can see that allowing right turns will cause problems, particularly at peak times, when the cars will be blocking King Street whist waiting to turn.
I suspect that the reason turning right doesn't cause a problem at the moment is because you have a lane in the middle of the street, meaning two lanes of traffic can pass when someone is turning right into Church Street. It's my understanding that this lane in the middle of the street is to go in order to make more pavement space. So yes, I can see that allowing right turns will cause problems, particularly at peak times, when the cars will be blocking King Street whist waiting to turn. Concerned_Resident
  • Score: -1

9:52am Fri 14 Feb 14

aspicer says...

It doesn't solve a problem, simply 'kicks the can down the road'.
Tennyson Avenue Rat Run story to follow shortly after this is introduced.
It doesn't solve a problem, simply 'kicks the can down the road'. Tennyson Avenue Rat Run story to follow shortly after this is introduced. aspicer
  • Score: -1

4:02pm Fri 14 Feb 14

alex twickenham says...

Aha, yet again Concerned Resident appears to have inside information which might explain the apparently perverse decision to ban right turns into Water Lane and Church St during peak hours - was anyone else aware that the, already adequate, pavements were about to be extended even further?
Perhaps we were consulted - if so I wonder how many commented.
I also wonder who is really responsible for what appears to be a hidden agenda - is it TfL or the Council? Isn't it handy to be able to blame another body for what looks like a flawed decision? Perhaps it's time for C'llr Harrison or Lord True to give us an update on the why's and wherefore's of this scheme and what's really behind it. A letter to this paper from one of them will probably suffice, after all, election fever is already rampant!

I wonder what the Church St Traders Association, all the residents and businesses on Eel Pie Island and Twickenham Rowing and Canoe clubs think about having restricted vehicle access to their homes, businesses and boat houses. What for? A bit more room on our posh new pavements it would seem or perhaps there is more to it than meets the eye.
Alex
Aha, yet again Concerned Resident appears to have inside information which might explain the apparently perverse decision to ban right turns into Water Lane and Church St during peak hours - was anyone else aware that the, already adequate, pavements were about to be extended even further? Perhaps we were consulted - if so I wonder how many commented. I also wonder who is really responsible for what appears to be a hidden agenda - is it TfL or the Council? Isn't it handy to be able to blame another body for what looks like a flawed decision? Perhaps it's time for C'llr Harrison or Lord True to give us an update on the why's and wherefore's of this scheme and what's really behind it. A letter to this paper from one of them will probably suffice, after all, election fever is already rampant! I wonder what the Church St Traders Association, all the residents and businesses on Eel Pie Island and Twickenham Rowing and Canoe clubs think about having restricted vehicle access to their homes, businesses and boat houses. What for? A bit more room on our posh new pavements it would seem or perhaps there is more to it than meets the eye. Alex alex twickenham
  • Score: 1

4:21pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Concerned_Resident says...

Alex, are you truly nuts??

It's common knowledge that the main aim of the project is to provide more pedestrian space. It is also known that they cannot achieve this aim without using some of the existing roadway which is what's caused the cycling brigade to get annoyed as they cannot accommodate a full time, statutory cycle lane as well as wider pavements and two lanes of traffic.

It is not rocket science to work out that getting rid of the lane in the middle, along with the island for crossing is what's going to provide the space to achieve this desire. Even the early plans on the Council's website suggest this is what's intended. Hardly my fault you've not worked this out for yourself, either because you're a bit dim or too busy thinking up tales of conspiracy about where I get my information.

Now, if the lane and island are to remain, then I will agree that the plan to not allow right turns is flawed. However, if the existing arrangement with the lane to turn right is going, your desire to maintain right turns is nonsensical and will mean that King Street will grind to a halt for several hours a day.
Alex, are you truly nuts?? It's common knowledge that the main aim of the project is to provide more pedestrian space. It is also known that they cannot achieve this aim without using some of the existing roadway which is what's caused the cycling brigade to get annoyed as they cannot accommodate a full time, statutory cycle lane as well as wider pavements and two lanes of traffic. It is not rocket science to work out that getting rid of the lane in the middle, along with the island for crossing is what's going to provide the space to achieve this desire. Even the early plans on the Council's website suggest this is what's intended. Hardly my fault you've not worked this out for yourself, either because you're a bit dim or too busy thinking up tales of conspiracy about where I get my information. Now, if the lane and island are to remain, then I will agree that the plan to not allow right turns is flawed. However, if the existing arrangement with the lane to turn right is going, your desire to maintain right turns is nonsensical and will mean that King Street will grind to a halt for several hours a day. Concerned_Resident
  • Score: 0

9:21pm Fri 14 Feb 14

alex twickenham says...

What a thoroughly unpleasant and vitriolic response from Concerned_Resident.
Given this, perhaps I am right about his or her access to inside information which we plebs are excluded from. What a silly billy, now everyone will wonder why he or she got so upset about a mild comment thus:
"Aha, yet again Concerned Resident appears to have inside information..."

Does that make me "dim" or "truly nuts??" I don't think so and prefer to think of myself as a truly concerned resident who prefers to have a civilized debate about our town without this sort of petty rudeness.

Perhaps there is indeed something we should be aware of - if not, I wonder why C_R is so aereated.
Alex
PS: It would be good to hear from either Councillor's Lord True or Harrison in due course
What a thoroughly unpleasant and vitriolic response from Concerned_Resident. Given this, perhaps I am right about his or her access to inside information which we plebs are excluded from. What a silly billy, now everyone will wonder why he or she got so upset about a mild comment thus: "Aha, yet again Concerned Resident appears to have inside information..." Does that make me "dim" or "truly nuts??" I don't think so and prefer to think of myself as a truly concerned resident who prefers to have a civilized debate about our town without this sort of petty rudeness. Perhaps there is indeed something we should be aware of - if not, I wonder why C_R is so aereated. Alex PS: It would be good to hear from either Councillor's Lord True or Harrison in due course alex twickenham
  • Score: 5

9:32pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Concerned_Resident says...

Your version of a civilised debate usually brews down to criticising me for wanting to remain anonymous. And yes, it is dim and/or nuts to constantly accuse me of being from inside the establishment with neither proof nor reason.

It'd be a shame if either the Lord or his subjects gives someone so suspicious even a nano second of their time.
Your version of a civilised debate usually brews down to criticising me for wanting to remain anonymous. And yes, it is dim and/or nuts to constantly accuse me of being from inside the establishment with neither proof nor reason. It'd be a shame if either the Lord or his subjects gives someone so suspicious even a nano second of their time. Concerned_Resident
  • Score: -7

3:34pm Sat 15 Feb 14

lucullus says...

Always a delight to hear you demonstrate your intolerance of dissenting opinions, even when you want yours to be heard, Alex. Let's hope you don't go and inspect the mini-Holland bid documents on the council website, otherwise you probably might have an unfortunate incident with your heart. Or your brain.

(Also entertaining that you're having a pop at CR over bring anonymous. Oh bravo!)

CR's analysis of the design - that the absence of the central island could make a right turn cause serious congestion - sounds spot on, btw.
Always a delight to hear you demonstrate your intolerance of dissenting opinions, even when you want yours to be heard, Alex. Let's hope you don't go and inspect the mini-Holland bid documents on the council website, otherwise you probably might have an unfortunate incident with your heart. Or your brain. (Also entertaining that you're having a pop at CR over bring anonymous. Oh bravo!) CR's analysis of the design - that the absence of the central island could make a right turn cause serious congestion - sounds spot on, btw. lucullus
  • Score: -7

4:56pm Sat 15 Feb 14

alex twickenham says...

Oh dear!
I rather hoped that, in the interest of other readers, Concerned_Resident would let me retire from the fray to lick my wounds.

Unfortunately he and his chum Lucullus, our local cycling champion and obsessive seem unable to do the right thing. There's something rather unpleasant about their attack dog stuff - don't mess with us we know what is best for you! Does anyone else find that approach to dissent a bit worrying? I certainly do.
I don't remember "having a pop at CR over bring(sic) anonymous" as Lucullus puts it. Why would I, after all I am! The only thing I can remember is that Hampton LibDem Councillor Gareth Roberts had a pop at me about choosing anonymity, as a result, I have repeatedly asked him to confirm or deny whether he has ever posted anything anonymously - needless to say he has studiously refused to do so. Perhaps he is C_R - who would know?

I'm sorry to have messed this interesting topic up for other readers but it may well be worth observing quite how unpleasant some people can be when they don't like to be challenged or there is indeed a hidden agenda.
If not, I wonder why they are so angry and abusive about my speculative input?
Alex
Oh dear! I rather hoped that, in the interest of other readers, Concerned_Resident would let me retire from the fray to lick my wounds. Unfortunately he and his chum Lucullus, our local cycling champion and obsessive seem unable to do the right thing. There's something rather unpleasant about their attack dog stuff - don't mess with us we know what is best for you! Does anyone else find that approach to dissent a bit worrying? I certainly do. I don't remember "having a pop at CR over bring(sic) anonymous" as Lucullus puts it. Why would I, after all I am! The only thing I can remember is that Hampton LibDem Councillor Gareth Roberts had a pop at me about choosing anonymity, as a result, I have repeatedly asked him to confirm or deny whether he has ever posted anything anonymously - needless to say he has studiously refused to do so. Perhaps he is C_R - who would know? I'm sorry to have messed this interesting topic up for other readers but it may well be worth observing quite how unpleasant some people can be when they don't like to be challenged or there is indeed a hidden agenda. If not, I wonder why they are so angry and abusive about my speculative input? Alex alex twickenham
  • Score: -1

2:50pm Sun 16 Feb 14

Julie Hill says...

At the risk of being shot down, please may I just ask if anyone else is having trouble working out quite what the contractors are doing to the pavement in Heath Road, Twickenham?

The second of hugely expensive York Stone now juts out in one section, so we have a bus lane, then the bus lane disappears then we have a bus lane.

I appreciate this is still work in progress but why on earth didn't they create a dedicated cycle lane within the York Stone boundary?

The width of the pavement in one area is now absolutely ridiculous. Or is the Council expecting huge crowds of people to flock to the Nationwide, Dry Cleaners and charity shops?

I gather they had to take up and re-lay the ridiculously wide pavement outside Modi's too. Isn't this where the bus stop is being re-located? If so, no one will be able to drive along Cross Deep when the buses stop to pick up passengers, so imagine the tailbacks.... Hopefully I have got that one wrong, but can someone please tell me what exactly the Council are hoping to achieve by covering the Town Centre roads in York Stone?
At the risk of being shot down, please may I just ask if anyone else is having trouble working out quite what the contractors are doing to the pavement in Heath Road, Twickenham? The second of hugely expensive York Stone now juts out in one section, so we have a bus lane, then the bus lane disappears then we have a bus lane. I appreciate this is still work in progress but why on earth didn't they create a dedicated cycle lane within the York Stone boundary? The width of the pavement in one area is now absolutely ridiculous. Or is the Council expecting huge crowds of people to flock to the Nationwide, Dry Cleaners and charity shops? I gather they had to take up and re-lay the ridiculously wide pavement outside Modi's too. Isn't this where the bus stop is being re-located? If so, no one will be able to drive along Cross Deep when the buses stop to pick up passengers, so imagine the tailbacks.... Hopefully I have got that one wrong, but can someone please tell me what exactly the Council are hoping to achieve by covering the Town Centre roads in York Stone? Julie Hill
  • Score: 1

10:03am Mon 17 Feb 14

illynillyt says...

Might I, with the greatest respect, suggest that you ask this question directly to the Council, either via your local councillor,or Mr Darvill who is I believe the Officer in charge of this project. Any answers you get from bloggers on this thread might not be wholly accurate!
Might I, with the greatest respect, suggest that you ask this question directly to the Council, either via your local councillor,or Mr Darvill who is I believe the Officer in charge of this project. Any answers you get from bloggers on this thread might not be wholly accurate! illynillyt
  • Score: 1

12:05pm Mon 17 Feb 14

Julie Hill says...

I have but am not finding it easy to elicit an answer!
I have but am not finding it easy to elicit an answer! Julie Hill
  • Score: 3

3:38pm Mon 17 Feb 14

alex twickenham says...

Ms Hill, I'm quite sure you won't be shot down like me for raising a very reasonable question. You have always been perfectly polite, even to those who don't deserve it.

Today, at midday, I trotted down the vastly expanded pavement betweeen Nationwide and M&S. There was work ongoing and a huge M&S delivery truck parked on the double yellow lines where the bus lane peters out and congestion is bound to occur - perhaps this space is to become a loading bay? If so, it does rather cast the lie for the old argument of "keeping the traffic moving" and "safety" to justify smacking a ticket on a Fiesta for parking there rather than a 38 ft artic!

I'm with you Ms Hill - why wasn't a cycle lane integrated within the boundary of this enormous pavement area? That may be a surprise for Lucullus who seems to inhabit a very black and white world, he may also be surprised to learn that I support the introduction of the mini-Holland scheme. This is his pre-judgement of my view:
"Let's hope you don't go and inspect the mini-Holland bid documents on the council website, otherwise you probably might have an unfortunate incident with your heart. Or your brain."
Such is the callowness of today's youthful obsessives. If I were him, I would probably concentrate on his other obsession with FFI requests, his gubernatorial duties or his day job.
As to the likelihood of a right turn ban into Water Lane, we are intrigued to know what "alternative arrangements" C'llr Harrison has in mind for residents of Eel Pie Island and the Embankment, also what are the plans for the Santander building and car park?
Alex
PS: There was also a large artic parked outside Sainsbury's on Twickenham Green - business must go on and we all need these shops but I wonder whether the national chains get preferential treatment rather than the small traders on King St Parade who are bound to be blighted.
Ms Hill, I'm quite sure you won't be shot down like me for raising a very reasonable question. You have always been perfectly polite, even to those who don't deserve it. Today, at midday, I trotted down the vastly expanded pavement betweeen Nationwide and M&S. There was work ongoing and a huge M&S delivery truck parked on the double yellow lines where the bus lane peters out and congestion is bound to occur - perhaps this space is to become a loading bay? If so, it does rather cast the lie for the old argument of "keeping the traffic moving" and "safety" to justify smacking a ticket on a Fiesta for parking there rather than a 38 ft artic! I'm with you Ms Hill - why wasn't a cycle lane integrated within the boundary of this enormous pavement area? That may be a surprise for Lucullus who seems to inhabit a very black and white world, he may also be surprised to learn that I support the introduction of the mini-Holland scheme. This is his pre-judgement of my view: "Let's hope you don't go and inspect the mini-Holland bid documents on the council website, otherwise you probably might have an unfortunate incident with your heart. Or your brain." Such is the callowness of today's youthful obsessives. If I were him, I would probably concentrate on his other obsession with FFI requests, his gubernatorial duties or his day job. As to the likelihood of a right turn ban into Water Lane, we are intrigued to know what "alternative arrangements" C'llr Harrison has in mind for residents of Eel Pie Island and the Embankment, also what are the plans for the Santander building and car park? Alex PS: There was also a large artic parked outside Sainsbury's on Twickenham Green - business must go on and we all need these shops but I wonder whether the national chains get preferential treatment rather than the small traders on King St Parade who are bound to be blighted. alex twickenham
  • Score: 1

Comments are closed on this article.

Send us your news, pictures and videos

Most read stories

Local Info

Enter your postcode, town or place name

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree