Somali women protest against adoption decision by Harrow Borough Council

Somali women demonstrated outside Harrow Civic Centre over an adoption they say is against their religious beliefs

Somali women demonstrated outside Harrow Civic Centre over an adoption they say is against their religious beliefs

First published in News
Last updated
This Is Local London: Photograph of the Author by , Senior Reporter

More than 50 women from the Somali community took to the streets outside Harrow Civic Centre to protest against an adoption decision they say goes against their religious beliefs.

The women gathered outside Harrow Borough Council's offices in Station Road as the child put up for adoption was due to go to its new family today.

According to the group, the child was due to be adopted by a lesbian couple, which protesters say is against their religious beliefs.

They say the mother and child’s religious beliefs and ethnicity have been ignored by placing the child in the home of the couple.

Protesters say the toddler was taken into care by social services just over a year and a half ago due to the mother's health issues and was put up for adoption in last year.

They are calling for the council to delay the adoption to reconsider the move.

A Harrow Council spokesman said: “Adoption decisions are taken after lengthy and extremely thorough consideration of what is in the child’s best interests and we always strive to identify the best parents possible, and ensure a child is placed as early in life as possible. These are always difficult decisions.

“We have met Somali community representatives in this case and are happy to talk through their concerns.

“In addition the Somali community has offered to work with us on raising the profile of fostering and adoption in their community.”

Comments (58)

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1:58pm Wed 29 Jan 14

SeaBee says...

If the Somali community are unhappy with UK law and practice then there is an alternative available to them. I understand thahethose in power in Mogadishu take a different view to that obtaining in the UK.
If the Somali community are unhappy with UK law and practice then there is an alternative available to them. I understand thahethose in power in Mogadishu take a different view to that obtaining in the UK. SeaBee
  • Score: 16

3:17pm Wed 29 Jan 14

poada says...

I suggest they evolve, the idiots.
I suggest they evolve, the idiots. poada
  • Score: 7

3:31pm Wed 29 Jan 14

ipsofacto says...

The most important thing is that a child feels secure and loved. It does not matter if those raising the child are in a gay, lesbian, mixed race or heterosexual relationship. A single person, as many women prove, are able to raise kids in this way and being single should not be a barrier to adoption either. In British culture lesbians are allowed to adopt. If I lived in a culture which I was unhappy with I would go and live elsewhere. No member of the Somali community should ever be the subjects of race hate. Equally, no lesbian should be discriminated against because of her sexuality. I hope that the Borough's Social Services take a common-sense approach to this issue.
The most important thing is that a child feels secure and loved. It does not matter if those raising the child are in a gay, lesbian, mixed race or heterosexual relationship. A single person, as many women prove, are able to raise kids in this way and being single should not be a barrier to adoption either. In British culture lesbians are allowed to adopt. If I lived in a culture which I was unhappy with I would go and live elsewhere. No member of the Somali community should ever be the subjects of race hate. Equally, no lesbian should be discriminated against because of her sexuality. I hope that the Borough's Social Services take a common-sense approach to this issue. ipsofacto
  • Score: 1

11:06pm Wed 29 Jan 14

ipsofacto says...

When a child has to be fostered/adopted what the social workers have to do is place the interests of the *child* first. The interests of the parent(s) are of secondary importance. Usually, it will be possible to find a foster family set-up which will be in the interests of both child and parent. In this case, I assume it was not possible. Good for the social workers.
When a child has to be fostered/adopted what the social workers have to do is place the interests of the *child* first. The interests of the parent(s) are of secondary importance. Usually, it will be possible to find a foster family set-up which will be in the interests of both child and parent. In this case, I assume it was not possible. Good for the social workers. ipsofacto
  • Score: 0

11:21pm Wed 29 Jan 14

Tennis30 says...

For whatever reason you have to give your child up for adoption, that's is a decision you have made. It is then most unfair, to put conditions on this decision. Where does it stop? "Sorry, you can't raise my child because your hair is to grey?" Whilst I can appreciate culture and background is important when raising a child, the harsh reality is, you give up this right, now the child is with someone else. Where was the 'community' when the mother of this child had to make this decision? The 'community' need to focus on the child that will receive unconditional love, despite of race, creed or sexuality
For whatever reason you have to give your child up for adoption, that's is a decision you have made. It is then most unfair, to put conditions on this decision. Where does it stop? "Sorry, you can't raise my child because your hair is to grey?" Whilst I can appreciate culture and background is important when raising a child, the harsh reality is, you give up this right, now the child is with someone else. Where was the 'community' when the mother of this child had to make this decision? The 'community' need to focus on the child that will receive unconditional love, despite of race, creed or sexuality Tennis30
  • Score: 5

11:59pm Wed 29 Jan 14

hmmmmm says...

It would be interesting to see how the Somali community felt if there was a protest about a child being adopted by Somalians.
It would be interesting to see how the Somali community felt if there was a protest about a child being adopted by Somalians. hmmmmm
  • Score: 13

12:12am Thu 30 Jan 14

tasneem1234 says...

this protest is not about whether or not the child is to be given to same sex couples but whether or not the social workers had done enough to place the child with relatives or family friends .They allegedly claim to have not found any family or friends for the child but today the community stood up to the council and showed them that there are several people from within the community who are registered as foster parents and several are willing to adopt the child.
this protest is not about whether or not the child is to be given to same sex couples but whether or not the social workers had done enough to place the child with relatives or family friends .They allegedly claim to have not found any family or friends for the child but today the community stood up to the council and showed them that there are several people from within the community who are registered as foster parents and several are willing to adopt the child. tasneem1234
  • Score: 15

8:37am Thu 30 Jan 14

spencer999 says...

Doublethink breaks down! Doublethink is the process named by George Orwell that politically correct people like social workers have to use. It involves believing two contradictory things at the same time.

BUT here you have the Somalian "community" demanding a baby is not placed amongst the gay "community". The gays say the Muslims are anti-gay. Shock, horror! You MUST NOT EVER offend Islam OR gays. Social workers have only one option left - a legally enforced news blackout, to save face.
Doublethink breaks down! Doublethink is the process named by George Orwell that politically correct people like social workers have to use. It involves believing two contradictory things at the same time. BUT here you have the Somalian "community" demanding a baby is not placed amongst the gay "community". The gays say the Muslims are anti-gay. Shock, horror! You MUST NOT EVER offend Islam OR gays. Social workers have only one option left - a legally enforced news blackout, to save face. spencer999
  • Score: 2

8:49am Thu 30 Jan 14

pravinshah1 says...

I could have written about equality, however I just say that I agrr with what Tennis30 says...
I could have written about equality, however I just say that I agrr with what Tennis30 says... pravinshah1
  • Score: -1

8:50am Thu 30 Jan 14

spencer999 says...

How wonderful it must be to have so much cultural enrichment. I'm sure life is just as lovely for gays in Somalia.

On the other hand, some people might say that it's completely wrong to tolerate a cult that thinks it's okay to slice the genitals off little girls.
How wonderful it must be to have so much cultural enrichment. I'm sure life is just as lovely for gays in Somalia. On the other hand, some people might say that it's completely wrong to tolerate a cult that thinks it's okay to slice the genitals off little girls. spencer999
  • Score: 16

9:25am Thu 30 Jan 14

ipsofacto says...

tasneem1234 wrote:
this protest is not about whether or not the child is to be given to same sex couples but whether or not the social workers had done enough to place the child with relatives or family friends .They allegedly claim to have not found any family or friends for the child but today the community stood up to the council and showed them that there are several people from within the community who are registered as foster parents and several are willing to adopt the child.
Tasneem1234

You suggest that the protest had *nothing* to do with relgious beliefs. You say it was entirely to do with the fact that the council did not first investigate the possibliity of placing the child with other family members and friends. There is no mention *whatsoever* of this in the article. That means either you or the journalist who wrote the article is lying. Perhaps you could take this up with the editor of the 'Harrow Times' to ask them to retract the article and replace it with one which centres on the issue of family/friends which you say was the *sole* rationale behind the protest.
[quote][p][bold]tasneem1234[/bold] wrote: this protest is not about whether or not the child is to be given to same sex couples but whether or not the social workers had done enough to place the child with relatives or family friends .They allegedly claim to have not found any family or friends for the child but today the community stood up to the council and showed them that there are several people from within the community who are registered as foster parents and several are willing to adopt the child.[/p][/quote]Tasneem1234 You suggest that the protest had *nothing* to do with relgious beliefs. You say it was entirely to do with the fact that the council did not first investigate the possibliity of placing the child with other family members and friends. There is no mention *whatsoever* of this in the article. That means either you or the journalist who wrote the article is lying. Perhaps you could take this up with the editor of the 'Harrow Times' to ask them to retract the article and replace it with one which centres on the issue of family/friends which you say was the *sole* rationale behind the protest. ipsofacto
  • Score: 3

1:05pm Thu 30 Jan 14

CharlotteP says...

spencer999 wrote:
How wonderful it must be to have so much cultural enrichment. I'm sure life is just as lovely for gays in Somalia.

On the other hand, some people might say that it's completely wrong to tolerate a cult that thinks it's okay to slice the genitals off little girls.
Well said that person!! FGM is a massive issue but I dont see these 'protesters' worrying about that...
[quote][p][bold]spencer999[/bold] wrote: How wonderful it must be to have so much cultural enrichment. I'm sure life is just as lovely for gays in Somalia. On the other hand, some people might say that it's completely wrong to tolerate a cult that thinks it's okay to slice the genitals off little girls.[/p][/quote]Well said that person!! FGM is a massive issue but I dont see these 'protesters' worrying about that... CharlotteP
  • Score: 4

2:32pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Alesso says...

This is so retarded. How many of these protestors are actual foster parents themselves?
This is so retarded. How many of these protestors are actual foster parents themselves? Alesso
  • Score: 3

2:50pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Husain Akhtar says...

Interesting that two Muslim councillors from the ‘independent’ Labour group (ILG), photographed with the protesters, helped and supported this protest by Muslim Somalis (ILG has three Muslim councillors, Labour has one and Tories none!).

While the Harrow council might try to find matching foster carers and adopters, there is a case to improve the situation by creating and maximising the same background fostering and adoption capacity within the communities concerned.
Interesting that two Muslim councillors from the ‘independent’ Labour group (ILG), photographed with the protesters, helped and supported this protest by Muslim Somalis (ILG has three Muslim councillors, Labour has one and Tories none!). While the Harrow council might try to find matching foster carers and adopters, there is a case to improve the situation by creating and maximising the same background fostering and adoption capacity within the communities concerned. Husain Akhtar
  • Score: -5

4:00pm Thu 30 Jan 14

Roadstar says...

It's interesting to understand that this child is now going to be cared for.

If these protesters were so concerned, why did their 'religious beliefs', not Intrigue them to become foster parents, and care for their own community.
It's interesting to understand that this child is now going to be cared for. If these protesters were so concerned, why did their 'religious beliefs', not Intrigue them to become foster parents, and care for their own community. Roadstar
  • Score: 6

10:41pm Thu 30 Jan 14

rabbitz says...

If you do not accept some people are gay then you know where the door is! You were accepted into this western country with open arms of all people gay or straight at least show the same decency and respect that was shown to you, Blooming cheeky so n s's
If you do not accept some people are gay then you know where the door is! You were accepted into this western country with open arms of all people gay or straight at least show the same decency and respect that was shown to you, Blooming cheeky so n s's rabbitz
  • Score: 5

11:20pm Thu 30 Jan 14

spencer999 says...

Somali women receiving huge amounts of free money from the UK protest against UK.
Somali women receiving huge amounts of free money from the UK protest against UK. spencer999
  • Score: 9

11:22pm Thu 30 Jan 14

spencer999 says...

can we have some comments about FGM from social services please.... thought not
can we have some comments about FGM from social services please.... thought not spencer999
  • Score: 7

1:38am Fri 31 Jan 14

Harrow Alan says...

tasneem1234 wrote:
this protest is not about whether or not the child is to be given to same sex couples but whether or not the social workers had done enough to place the child with relatives or family friends .They allegedly claim to have not found any family or friends for the child but today the community stood up to the council and showed them that there are several people from within the community who are registered as foster parents and several are willing to adopt the child.
You can't know this for sure without knowing inside details, so to use the word "allegedly" as you have you're either in the know or are casting unfounded aspersions.

You're also missing the elephant in the room in your own argument. Yes, these people are standing up now, but were they standing up earlier in the process? Evidently not, or we would have heard about it, as we are now. So it's really quite apparent that this is about the sexuality of the couple now chosen to adopt the child.
[quote][p][bold]tasneem1234[/bold] wrote: this protest is not about whether or not the child is to be given to same sex couples but whether or not the social workers had done enough to place the child with relatives or family friends .They allegedly claim to have not found any family or friends for the child but today the community stood up to the council and showed them that there are several people from within the community who are registered as foster parents and several are willing to adopt the child.[/p][/quote]You can't know this for sure without knowing inside details, so to use the word "allegedly" as you have you're either in the know or are casting unfounded aspersions. You're also missing the elephant in the room in your own argument. Yes, these people are standing up now, but were they standing up earlier in the process? Evidently not, or we would have heard about it, as we are now. So it's really quite apparent that this is about the sexuality of the couple now chosen to adopt the child. Harrow Alan
  • Score: 3

1:25pm Fri 31 Jan 14

bobobbob999099909 says...

I think is plain wrong for any child to have gay parents , because this will cause a huge headache for the child as to whats going in the house and why do i have two mums whereas everyone else has a mum and dad like normal. But the worst part is when the friends come round to the house , what do you think the outcome will be not good i can guarantee you that .You can be gay if you want ( in my opinion i still think is morally and just completely wrong on all levels) but don't go around adopting children and then **** their life up, there must me another solution to this, this is not even a option
I think is plain wrong for any child to have gay parents , because this will cause a huge headache for the child as to whats going in the house and why do i have two mums whereas everyone else has a mum and dad like normal. But the worst part is when the friends come round to the house , what do you think the outcome will be not good i can guarantee you that .You can be gay if you want ( in my opinion i still think is morally and just completely wrong on all levels) but don't go around adopting children and then **** their life up, there must me another solution to this, this is not even a option bobobbob999099909
  • Score: -2

3:27pm Fri 31 Jan 14

ipsofacto says...

@bobobbob999099909

It doesn't have to be an issue at all. My brother, his wife and son emigrated to New Zealand about 11 years ago. A year later, my brother's wife left him because she said she had fallen in love with another woman. So be it. My nephew spends alternate weeks with his mum and dad. When he is with his mother he calls her 'Mummy' and he calls her partner 'Mummy Julie'. His school friends know about the different families he has and he has not been teased once about it. He has even had his friends over for sleepovers. I have met him on just three occasions and he comes across as a polite and well-balanced boy. It is a relationship that works for all concerned.

You have to remember that many children do not have two parents. Often the father takes no interest in his childrens' upbringing. Single parenthood is so common now that most people will not think twice about it.

There is nothing wrong with being gay/lesbian. You are who you are. As a citizen of Harrow and the UK I do not want any child to be fostered or adopted by people who are homophobic.

I am white, male, middle class and married with two adult children. If either of them came to me and said that they were gay/lesbian the most important question I would ask them is 'Are you happy?'
@bobobbob999099909 It doesn't have to be an issue at all. My brother, his wife and son emigrated to New Zealand about 11 years ago. A year later, my brother's wife left him because she said she had fallen in love with another woman. So be it. My nephew spends alternate weeks with his mum and dad. When he is with his mother he calls her 'Mummy' and he calls her partner 'Mummy Julie'. His school friends know about the different families he has and he has not been teased once about it. He has even had his friends over for sleepovers. I have met him on just three occasions and he comes across as a polite and well-balanced boy. It is a relationship that works for all concerned. You have to remember that many children do not have two parents. Often the father takes no interest in his childrens' upbringing. Single parenthood is so common now that most people will not think twice about it. There is nothing wrong with being gay/lesbian. You are who you are. As a citizen of Harrow and the UK I do not want any child to be fostered or adopted by people who are homophobic. I am white, male, middle class and married with two adult children. If either of them came to me and said that they were gay/lesbian the most important question I would ask them is 'Are you happy?' ipsofacto
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Roadstar says...

bobobbob999099909-

Why didn't you join the protest with Somali community for their religious beliefs? You could have made a difference with your strong opinion.
bobobbob999099909- Why didn't you join the protest with Somali community for their religious beliefs? You could have made a difference with your strong opinion. Roadstar
  • Score: 2

12:41am Sat 1 Feb 14

Davidx says...

Victoria C organisation has written to Council pointing out systematic operational failures in this case even hinting elements racism and lack of regard of cultural and religious background. Moreover, there appear to be truth that potential family fosters were ignored. The religious element also applies to Catholic, Jewish and many other religions who would not allow a child to be put in such environment. In fact, the Child's best interest seem to be have ignored and this is likely to become national news and a potential test court case. People have right to choose whatever lifestyle they choose but it has to be their own decision and a child of three years old cant decide.and those who can should take a long term view in the interest of child. i
Victoria C organisation has written to Council pointing out systematic operational failures in this case even hinting elements racism and lack of regard of cultural and religious background. Moreover, there appear to be truth that potential family fosters were ignored. The religious element also applies to Catholic, Jewish and many other religions who would not allow a child to be put in such environment. In fact, the Child's best interest seem to be have ignored and this is likely to become national news and a potential test court case. People have right to choose whatever lifestyle they choose but it has to be their own decision and a child of three years old cant decide.and those who can should take a long term view in the interest of child. i Davidx
  • Score: 8

12:49am Sat 1 Feb 14

Davidx says...

In this particular case, Independent Labour Group Cllrs, are showing courage to speak on behalf of many thousands of people of all Abrahamic faiths in Harrow and this must be a breath of fresh air when most politicians find it convenient to take positions for only public consumption. Some may not like ot so be it. Harrow is the most religiously diverse borough in the country and faith is important to many local residents from many religions.
In this particular case, Independent Labour Group Cllrs, are showing courage to speak on behalf of many thousands of people of all Abrahamic faiths in Harrow and this must be a breath of fresh air when most politicians find it convenient to take positions for only public consumption. Some may not like ot so be it. Harrow is the most religiously diverse borough in the country and faith is important to many local residents from many religions. Davidx
  • Score: 0

8:17am Sat 1 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@Davidx

"People have right to choose whatever lifestyle they choose but it has to be their own decision and a child of three years old cant decide"

Correct. So shall we remove all children from all parents who raise those children in a particular faith on the grounds that they are imposing a belief system on their child?

I think, that as far as possible, a child should be placed with a family that has the same ethnicity as the family the child is coming from. Sometimes it is not possible to accommodate such an arrangement. I would find it abhorrent if a child was placed with a family with racist views. My children are adults but if I had been unable to look after them when they were young I would have been extremely distressed and angry if they had been placed in a family whose religious views were homophobic.

Let's get one thing straight - there is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian. You are who you are. Homosexual couples are just as capable of giving a child love and security as heterosexual couples are. I would suggest to those who would discriminate against homosexuals that they go to another place where their vile views can be tolerated. We are not going to tolerate homophobia in Harrow.
@Davidx "People have right to choose whatever lifestyle they choose but it has to be their own decision and a child of three years old cant decide" Correct. So shall we remove all children from all parents who raise those children in a particular faith on the grounds that they are imposing a belief system on their child? I think, that as far as possible, a child should be placed with a family that has the same ethnicity as the family the child is coming from. Sometimes it is not possible to accommodate such an arrangement. I would find it abhorrent if a child was placed with a family with racist views. My children are adults but if I had been unable to look after them when they were young I would have been extremely distressed and angry if they had been placed in a family whose religious views were homophobic. Let's get one thing straight - there is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian. You are who you are. Homosexual couples are just as capable of giving a child love and security as heterosexual couples are. I would suggest to those who would discriminate against homosexuals that they go to another place where their vile views can be tolerated. We are not going to tolerate homophobia in Harrow. ipsofacto
  • Score: 1

11:45am Sat 1 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

The article does not give the sex of the child that was adopted. If that child were female it would now be free from female genital mutilation assault. Why is it that the protest asks for the child to be adopted by a community that condones this practice? I think that there have been no arrests in the UK for this barbaric assault on young females.
Why is it that the councillors shown in the picture have not organised a protest on this issue? The interests of the child must take precedence. Will the councillors shown in picture have the courage to condemn this practice or will they not wish to tackle it because it goes against political correctness and would ruin ther election prospects in the May 2014 election? Also perhaps the Harrow Times can ask the protesters what they are doing to outlaw this practice.
After all it was culturally acceptable in England in the 17th century to burn old women as witches This is no longer done as people realised it was an unacceptable thing to do. FGM cannot be excused on the grounds of religion and culture. This is the elephant in the room that is ignored.
The article does not give the sex of the child that was adopted. If that child were female it would now be free from female genital mutilation assault. Why is it that the protest asks for the child to be adopted by a community that condones this practice? I think that there have been no arrests in the UK for this barbaric assault on young females. Why is it that the councillors shown in the picture have not organised a protest on this issue? The interests of the child must take precedence. Will the councillors shown in picture have the courage to condemn this practice or will they not wish to tackle it because it goes against political correctness and would ruin ther election prospects in the May 2014 election? Also perhaps the Harrow Times can ask the protesters what they are doing to outlaw this practice. After all it was culturally acceptable in England in the 17th century to burn old women as witches This is no longer done as people realised it was an unacceptable thing to do. FGM cannot be excused on the grounds of religion and culture. This is the elephant in the room that is ignored. jackdaw
  • Score: 2

7:12pm Sat 1 Feb 14

Husain Akhtar says...

Davidx, knowing you, I know that you know the desperate situation the ‘independent’ labour group is in: therefore, copy-cat re fostering and adopting - look at my letter of 24 December sent to councillors and officers, including you!
Davidx, knowing you, I know that you know the desperate situation the ‘independent’ labour group is in: therefore, copy-cat re fostering and adopting - look at my letter of 24 December sent to councillors and officers, including you! Husain Akhtar
  • Score: -2

7:05am Sun 2 Feb 14

rabbitz says...

Well said Jackdaw This child will be brought up free from genital mutilation free from drug abuse namely "Khat" and free to make up its own mind about what religion if any it chooses by a loving couple, We live in a free democratic western country not a medieval repressed society. Get over it, there is no excuse for homophobia not even for religious purposes.
Well said Jackdaw This child will be brought up free from genital mutilation free from drug abuse namely "Khat" and free to make up its own mind about what religion if any it chooses by a loving couple, We live in a free democratic western country not a medieval repressed society. Get over it, there is no excuse for homophobia not even for religious purposes. rabbitz
  • Score: 1

7:18am Sun 2 Feb 14

rabbitz says...

Anyone within the somali community if you are gay you can seek help here http://www.imaan.org
.uk/faq/faq.htm
Anyone within the somali community if you are gay you can seek help here http://www.imaan.org .uk/faq/faq.htm rabbitz
  • Score: -5

10:44am Sun 2 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

The only councillor I know who had the courage to speak out about FGM was Jeremy Zeid now a prospective candidate for UKIP. The silence of Harrow councillors speaks volumes. As they do not condemn the practice are we to assume that they support FGM? I suggest we ask this question when they come to our doors canvassing for votes.
Also if religion and culture did not evolve we would have foot binding and the Spanish Inquisition still with us. Honour killings are now seen for what they are – murder. Cannibals could say they should be allowed to kill and eat people because it was part of their culture. Where would it all end?
The only councillor I know who had the courage to speak out about FGM was Jeremy Zeid now a prospective candidate for UKIP. The silence of Harrow councillors speaks volumes. As they do not condemn the practice are we to assume that they support FGM? I suggest we ask this question when they come to our doors canvassing for votes. Also if religion and culture did not evolve we would have foot binding and the Spanish Inquisition still with us. Honour killings are now seen for what they are – murder. Cannibals could say they should be allowed to kill and eat people because it was part of their culture. Where would it all end? jackdaw
  • Score: 1

10:47pm Sun 2 Feb 14

Harriet79 says...

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2550317/White-lesbia
n-couple-allowed-ado
pt-three-year-old-Mu
slim-girl-against-wi
shes-family.html
http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2550317/White-lesbia n-couple-allowed-ado pt-three-year-old-Mu slim-girl-against-wi shes-family.html Harriet79
  • Score: 1

10:52pm Sun 2 Feb 14

Harriet79 says...

rabbitz wrote:
Well said Jackdaw This child will be brought up free from genital mutilation free from drug abuse namely "Khat" and free to make up its own mind about what religion if any it chooses by a loving couple, We live in a free democratic western country not a medieval repressed society. Get over it, there is no excuse for homophobia not even for religious purposes.
Your right, if this child gets the best of this wonderfully enlightened free western society she'll be binge drinking at 11 years old, pregnant when she's 13 and hooked on ecstasy by the time she's 16 ....
[quote][p][bold]rabbitz[/bold] wrote: Well said Jackdaw This child will be brought up free from genital mutilation free from drug abuse namely "Khat" and free to make up its own mind about what religion if any it chooses by a loving couple, We live in a free democratic western country not a medieval repressed society. Get over it, there is no excuse for homophobia not even for religious purposes.[/p][/quote]Your right, if this child gets the best of this wonderfully enlightened free western society she'll be binge drinking at 11 years old, pregnant when she's 13 and hooked on ecstasy by the time she's 16 .... Harriet79
  • Score: -1

11:11pm Sun 2 Feb 14

rabbitz says...

Harriet79 your world maybe not mine
Harriet79 your world maybe not mine rabbitz
  • Score: 1

11:23pm Sun 2 Feb 14

Harriet79 says...

I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint.

Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?
I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint. Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies? Harriet79
  • Score: 6

8:25am Mon 3 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

Harriet79 wrote:
I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint.

Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?
Harriet79 - you make some fair points. But please tell me a couple of things. Do you believe that it is ethical for Social Services to foster out children to families in whose religion homophobia is institutionalised? In that, I include not just Islam but also some Jewish sects and some evangelical christians. Surely, social services have a duty to ensure that the family they are sending a child too hold views which are rational and tolerant?
[quote][p][bold]Harriet79[/bold] wrote: I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint. Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?[/p][/quote]Harriet79 - you make some fair points. But please tell me a couple of things. Do you believe that it is ethical for Social Services to foster out children to families in whose religion homophobia is institutionalised? In that, I include not just Islam but also some Jewish sects and some evangelical christians. Surely, social services have a duty to ensure that the family they are sending a child too hold views which are rational and tolerant? ipsofacto
  • Score: 1

8:56pm Mon 3 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

Sorry, you PC apologists and Somalian benefit recipients. (apology to the 1% of Somalis not claiming). Can you guarantee that if this child was a girl, the somalians would not mutilate her genitals? Do any of you think that parents of FGM victims should be prosecuted? Why have there been no prosecutions so far? I'll save you the bother of wondering. Community cohesion is more important than young lives being ruined.
Sorry, you PC apologists and Somalian benefit recipients. (apology to the 1% of Somalis not claiming). Can you guarantee that if this child was a girl, the somalians would not mutilate her genitals? Do any of you think that parents of FGM victims should be prosecuted? Why have there been no prosecutions so far? I'll save you the bother of wondering. Community cohesion is more important than young lives being ruined. spencer999
  • Score: 0

9:13pm Mon 3 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

Harriet79 wrote:
I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint.

Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?
would you allow a Somali family to adopt a white baby girl, knowing that she might have her genitals sliced up? See? Being PC brings up all sorts of problems. Most PC people deal with it by putting their hands over their ears and saying la la la can't hear you.
[quote][p][bold]Harriet79[/bold] wrote: I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint. Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?[/p][/quote]would you allow a Somali family to adopt a white baby girl, knowing that she might have her genitals sliced up? See? Being PC brings up all sorts of problems. Most PC people deal with it by putting their hands over their ears and saying la la la can't hear you. spencer999
  • Score: 0

10:26pm Mon 3 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

I hope this lady is receiving contraceptive advice from the mental health service. Two of her children are in care and the third is up for adoption. If she is not taking advice on contraception she could go producing children ad infinitum and this scenario could occur again and again.
Incidentally where do the fathers fit into the picture as I assume these were not virgin births?
I hope this lady is receiving contraceptive advice from the mental health service. Two of her children are in care and the third is up for adoption. If she is not taking advice on contraception she could go producing children ad infinitum and this scenario could occur again and again. Incidentally where do the fathers fit into the picture as I assume these were not virgin births? jackdaw
  • Score: 3

11:58pm Mon 3 Feb 14

Sonoo Malkani says...

Hugely concerned by the torrent of abuse being expressed --some directly and others indirectly---and the polarisation of views.We should be focussing on the FEELINGS and thoughts of this young ,vulnerable CHILD who needs a stable,loving home to grow up in.I cannot imagine the extent of the disappointment and hurt leading to even more feelings of insecurity.It is a tough learning curve not just for the Local Authority but for the entire community.

Let us not fight each other,or make political points.Let us genuinely concentrate on finding a compromise which is palatable for the community at large and IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THIS CHILD.Our hearts should beat in unison with compassion,bearing in mind that there is a child desperately seeking to be loved and looked after by caring parents,waiting and wishing it was over!

When there is so much passion from the Somali community because the adopting parents are a Lesbian couple --something they cannot reconcile with --Harrow Council is duty-bound to consider their feelings,whether or not anybody likes the customs and viewpoints of these members from the Somali community.

This is not simply about the SOMALI community and their personal beliefs,traditions,r
eligion etc.Nor about the JEWS or any other community in particular.It is about the fundamental principle of the depth and breadth of what should be included in the sensitive deliberations when a child's adoption is being considered.That has to be the PRIMARY CONCERN.The feelings of the adopting parents must come second to that of the vulnerable young child.

Jackdaw has made some useful points.I remember clearly Cllr Jeremy Zeid ,a Tory party member at that time,attending the HPCCG meetings and regularly raising the flag against FGM.,
He has consistently continued to do this even after joining the UKIP as its Leader in Harrow.Most folk were too embarassed to discuss this sensitive matter in public.

I am painfully aware that there are many practices such as FGM and HONOUR KILLING---I have long argued it should be called DISHONOUR KILLING---of which I heartily disapprove,along with the majority of our peoples.It is a matter of great pain and shame, troubling many in our society.

Some of the offensive comments ,such as those made by Harriet 79 , about the Western culture do not help a jot and are counter-productive.I urge you all to PLEASE CALM DOWN and think with a cool head.We are not qualified to play judge and jury in such complex circumstances.Frayed tempers produce nothing positive but damage us all.

Let us look for RATIONAL SOLUTIONS ,in this highly evocative situation.One size does not fit all.I expect there is a template for adoption and strict rules in place but there must be some "wriggle room " so that we deliver the best,for the vulnerable child ,on a case by case basis.Please let us be civil and not lash out at each other.

I unequivocally agree that we must obey the Law of the land and anyone choosing to live in the UK and make it their home has a duty to adapt the best they can.We have rights but must remember they go hand in hand with responsibilities, not just to ourselves but to the community we live in.

God give us the strength and wisdom to do that which is a win-win for everybody,in particular this young child.God bless.
Hugely concerned by the torrent of abuse being expressed --some directly and others indirectly---and the polarisation of views.We should be focussing on the FEELINGS and thoughts of this young ,vulnerable CHILD who needs a stable,loving home to grow up in.I cannot imagine the extent of the disappointment and hurt leading to even more feelings of insecurity.It is a tough learning curve not just for the Local Authority but for the entire community. Let us not fight each other,or make political points.Let us genuinely concentrate on finding a compromise which is palatable for the community at large and IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THIS CHILD.Our hearts should beat in unison with compassion,bearing in mind that there is a child desperately seeking to be loved and looked after by caring parents,waiting and wishing it was over! When there is so much passion from the Somali community because the adopting parents are a Lesbian couple --something they cannot reconcile with --Harrow Council is duty-bound to consider their feelings,whether or not anybody likes the customs and viewpoints of these members from the Somali community. This is not simply about the SOMALI community and their personal beliefs,traditions,r eligion etc.Nor about the JEWS or any other community in particular.It is about the fundamental principle of the depth and breadth of what should be included in the sensitive deliberations when a child's adoption is being considered.That has to be the PRIMARY CONCERN.The feelings of the adopting parents must come second to that of the vulnerable young child. Jackdaw has made some useful points.I remember clearly Cllr Jeremy Zeid ,a Tory party member at that time,attending the HPCCG meetings and regularly raising the flag against FGM., He has consistently continued to do this even after joining the UKIP as its Leader in Harrow.Most folk were too embarassed to discuss this sensitive matter in public. I am painfully aware that there are many practices such as FGM and HONOUR KILLING---I have long argued it should be called DISHONOUR KILLING---of which I heartily disapprove,along with the majority of our peoples.It is a matter of great pain and shame, troubling many in our society. Some of the offensive comments ,such as those made by Harriet 79 , about the Western culture do not help a jot and are counter-productive.I urge you all to PLEASE CALM DOWN and think with a cool head.We are not qualified to play judge and jury in such complex circumstances.Frayed tempers produce nothing positive but damage us all. Let us look for RATIONAL SOLUTIONS ,in this highly evocative situation.One size does not fit all.I expect there is a template for adoption and strict rules in place but there must be some "wriggle room " so that we deliver the best,for the vulnerable child ,on a case by case basis.Please let us be civil and not lash out at each other. I unequivocally agree that we must obey the Law of the land and anyone choosing to live in the UK and make it their home has a duty to adapt the best they can.We have rights but must remember they go hand in hand with responsibilities, not just to ourselves but to the community we live in. God give us the strength and wisdom to do that which is a win-win for everybody,in particular this young child.God bless. Sonoo Malkani
  • Score: 0

8:32am Tue 4 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

Sonoo Malkani wrote:
Hugely concerned by the torrent of abuse being expressed --some directly and others indirectly---and the polarisation of views.We should be focussing on the FEELINGS and thoughts of this young ,vulnerable CHILD who needs a stable,loving home to grow up in.I cannot imagine the extent of the disappointment and hurt leading to even more feelings of insecurity.It is a tough learning curve not just for the Local Authority but for the entire community.

Let us not fight each other,or make political points.Let us genuinely concentrate on finding a compromise which is palatable for the community at large and IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THIS CHILD.Our hearts should beat in unison with compassion,bearing in mind that there is a child desperately seeking to be loved and looked after by caring parents,waiting and wishing it was over!

When there is so much passion from the Somali community because the adopting parents are a Lesbian couple --something they cannot reconcile with --Harrow Council is duty-bound to consider their feelings,whether or not anybody likes the customs and viewpoints of these members from the Somali community.

This is not simply about the SOMALI community and their personal beliefs,traditions,r

eligion etc.Nor about the JEWS or any other community in particular.It is about the fundamental principle of the depth and breadth of what should be included in the sensitive deliberations when a child's adoption is being considered.That has to be the PRIMARY CONCERN.The feelings of the adopting parents must come second to that of the vulnerable young child.

Jackdaw has made some useful points.I remember clearly Cllr Jeremy Zeid ,a Tory party member at that time,attending the HPCCG meetings and regularly raising the flag against FGM.,
He has consistently continued to do this even after joining the UKIP as its Leader in Harrow.Most folk were too embarassed to discuss this sensitive matter in public.

I am painfully aware that there are many practices such as FGM and HONOUR KILLING---I have long argued it should be called DISHONOUR KILLING---of which I heartily disapprove,along with the majority of our peoples.It is a matter of great pain and shame, troubling many in our society.

Some of the offensive comments ,such as those made by Harriet 79 , about the Western culture do not help a jot and are counter-productive.I urge you all to PLEASE CALM DOWN and think with a cool head.We are not qualified to play judge and jury in such complex circumstances.Frayed tempers produce nothing positive but damage us all.

Let us look for RATIONAL SOLUTIONS ,in this highly evocative situation.One size does not fit all.I expect there is a template for adoption and strict rules in place but there must be some "wriggle room " so that we deliver the best,for the vulnerable child ,on a case by case basis.Please let us be civil and not lash out at each other.

I unequivocally agree that we must obey the Law of the land and anyone choosing to live in the UK and make it their home has a duty to adapt the best they can.We have rights but must remember they go hand in hand with responsibilities, not just to ourselves but to the community we live in.

God give us the strength and wisdom to do that which is a win-win for everybody,in particular this young child.God bless.
@Sonoo Malkani
I find your comments from disturbing. The council should only be acting in the best interest of the CHILD, NOT the Somalian community!! How can you say such a thing?

And this is nothing to do with the JEWS!

You then say the feelings of the parents must come SECOND!! What planet are you living on?!!!
[quote][p][bold]Sonoo Malkani[/bold] wrote: Hugely concerned by the torrent of abuse being expressed --some directly and others indirectly---and the polarisation of views.We should be focussing on the FEELINGS and thoughts of this young ,vulnerable CHILD who needs a stable,loving home to grow up in.I cannot imagine the extent of the disappointment and hurt leading to even more feelings of insecurity.It is a tough learning curve not just for the Local Authority but for the entire community. Let us not fight each other,or make political points.Let us genuinely concentrate on finding a compromise which is palatable for the community at large and IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THIS CHILD.Our hearts should beat in unison with compassion,bearing in mind that there is a child desperately seeking to be loved and looked after by caring parents,waiting and wishing it was over! When there is so much passion from the Somali community because the adopting parents are a Lesbian couple --something they cannot reconcile with --Harrow Council is duty-bound to consider their feelings,whether or not anybody likes the customs and viewpoints of these members from the Somali community. This is not simply about the SOMALI community and their personal beliefs,traditions,r eligion etc.Nor about the JEWS or any other community in particular.It is about the fundamental principle of the depth and breadth of what should be included in the sensitive deliberations when a child's adoption is being considered.That has to be the PRIMARY CONCERN.The feelings of the adopting parents must come second to that of the vulnerable young child. Jackdaw has made some useful points.I remember clearly Cllr Jeremy Zeid ,a Tory party member at that time,attending the HPCCG meetings and regularly raising the flag against FGM., He has consistently continued to do this even after joining the UKIP as its Leader in Harrow.Most folk were too embarassed to discuss this sensitive matter in public. I am painfully aware that there are many practices such as FGM and HONOUR KILLING---I have long argued it should be called DISHONOUR KILLING---of which I heartily disapprove,along with the majority of our peoples.It is a matter of great pain and shame, troubling many in our society. Some of the offensive comments ,such as those made by Harriet 79 , about the Western culture do not help a jot and are counter-productive.I urge you all to PLEASE CALM DOWN and think with a cool head.We are not qualified to play judge and jury in such complex circumstances.Frayed tempers produce nothing positive but damage us all. Let us look for RATIONAL SOLUTIONS ,in this highly evocative situation.One size does not fit all.I expect there is a template for adoption and strict rules in place but there must be some "wriggle room " so that we deliver the best,for the vulnerable child ,on a case by case basis.Please let us be civil and not lash out at each other. I unequivocally agree that we must obey the Law of the land and anyone choosing to live in the UK and make it their home has a duty to adapt the best they can.We have rights but must remember they go hand in hand with responsibilities, not just to ourselves but to the community we live in. God give us the strength and wisdom to do that which is a win-win for everybody,in particular this young child.God bless.[/p][/quote]@Sonoo Malkani I find your comments from disturbing. The council should only be acting in the best interest of the CHILD, NOT the Somalian community!! How can you say such a thing? And this is nothing to do with the JEWS! You then say the feelings of the parents must come SECOND!! What planet are you living on?!!! DJFearRoss
  • Score: 5

8:49am Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

There are some small jewish sects that are homophobic and that also applies to some fundamentalist evangelical christians. I would hope that all those who adhere to religions in which homophobia is institutionalised are deemed unsuitable to receive a child from the council's care.

Sonoo Malkani thinks we "should calm down and think with a cool head". I agree and my cool head says do not give in to religious bigots. The citizens of Harrow would not tolerate racism. Nor should we tolerate homophobia.
There are some small jewish sects that are homophobic and that also applies to some fundamentalist evangelical christians. I would hope that all those who adhere to religions in which homophobia is institutionalised are deemed unsuitable to receive a child from the council's care. Sonoo Malkani thinks we "should calm down and think with a cool head". I agree and my cool head says do not give in to religious bigots. The citizens of Harrow would not tolerate racism. Nor should we tolerate homophobia. ipsofacto
  • Score: 2

9:08am Tue 4 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

I wonder how many women in the Somali "community" have NOY undergone genital mutilation? If they adopted a white baby girl, could they guarantee it wouldn't happen to her? NO.

And to make excuses for Muslim backwardness by saying Jews and Christians do it too is to DELIBERATELY either lie or misunderstand or both.
I wonder how many women in the Somali "community" have NOY undergone genital mutilation? If they adopted a white baby girl, could they guarantee it wouldn't happen to her? NO. And to make excuses for Muslim backwardness by saying Jews and Christians do it too is to DELIBERATELY either lie or misunderstand or both. spencer999
  • Score: 3

10:49am Tue 4 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

ipsofacto wrote:
There are some small jewish sects that are homophobic and that also applies to some fundamentalist evangelical christians. I would hope that all those who adhere to religions in which homophobia is institutionalised are deemed unsuitable to receive a child from the council's care.

Sonoo Malkani thinks we "should calm down and think with a cool head". I agree and my cool head says do not give in to religious bigots. The citizens of Harrow would not tolerate racism. Nor should we tolerate homophobia.
So now two wrongs make a right?
Will it ever be possible to have a discussion about an Islamic issue without the usual, "what about the Jews?", "What about the Christians?".
[quote][p][bold]ipsofacto[/bold] wrote: There are some small jewish sects that are homophobic and that also applies to some fundamentalist evangelical christians. I would hope that all those who adhere to religions in which homophobia is institutionalised are deemed unsuitable to receive a child from the council's care. Sonoo Malkani thinks we "should calm down and think with a cool head". I agree and my cool head says do not give in to religious bigots. The citizens of Harrow would not tolerate racism. Nor should we tolerate homophobia.[/p][/quote]So now two wrongs make a right? Will it ever be possible to have a discussion about an Islamic issue without the usual, "what about the Jews?", "What about the Christians?". DJFearRoss
  • Score: 5

12:09pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

DJFearRoss:

Two wrongs never make a right - two or three or four wrongs make two or three or four *wrongs*.

Those who use the cover of their religion in order to promote homophobia are *all* wrong. That applies to Jews, Christians and Muslims who hold such awful anti-social views. And political bigotry, on matters of sexuality, from all these groups must be opposed at all times.

People have been told they cannot adopt because they smoke or they are overweight. I would suggest that those with homophobic views should be refused as foster carers and potential parents through adoption.
DJFearRoss: Two wrongs never make a right - two or three or four wrongs make two or three or four *wrongs*. Those who use the cover of their religion in order to promote homophobia are *all* wrong. That applies to Jews, Christians and Muslims who hold such awful anti-social views. And political bigotry, on matters of sexuality, from all these groups must be opposed at all times. People have been told they cannot adopt because they smoke or they are overweight. I would suggest that those with homophobic views should be refused as foster carers and potential parents through adoption. ipsofacto
  • Score: 0

12:57pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

spencer999 - I cannot agree with you about Christians being tolerant towards homosexuality. There are many, particularly those in sub-Saharan Africa and in the United States who are implacably and overtly homophobic. Sadly, many people will not challenge 'black' homophobia for fear of being called racist. It never ceases to amaze me that minority groups in the UK who quite rightly demand they should not be discriminated against on grounds of their race or religion then pile hate on those who happen to be gay or lesbian. This is what I think is going on at the moment. Councillors are afraid to be seen criticising 'minority' groups because it would not be PC to do so. Instead of attacking those bigoted groups it seems to me that those same councillors are happy to use the forums on this newspaper's website to launder their dirty washing.

I would urge all councillors to inject some intelligence and morality into this matter. They should tell those who give voice to homophobia to take their vile views elsewhere. I want to see Susan Hall tell the Borough's social workers that they are doing a good job and that she supports their decision.
spencer999 - I cannot agree with you about Christians being tolerant towards homosexuality. There are many, particularly those in sub-Saharan Africa and in the United States who are implacably and overtly homophobic. Sadly, many people will not challenge 'black' homophobia for fear of being called racist. It never ceases to amaze me that minority groups in the UK who quite rightly demand they should not be discriminated against on grounds of their race or religion then pile hate on those who happen to be gay or lesbian. This is what I think is going on at the moment. Councillors are afraid to be seen criticising 'minority' groups because it would not be PC to do so. Instead of attacking those bigoted groups it seems to me that those same councillors are happy to use the forums on this newspaper's website to launder their dirty washing. I would urge all councillors to inject some intelligence and morality into this matter. They should tell those who give voice to homophobia to take their vile views elsewhere. I want to see Susan Hall tell the Borough's social workers that they are doing a good job and that she supports their decision. ipsofacto
  • Score: -1

2:03pm Tue 4 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

Gays can call Islam anti-gay, and they will be accused of islamophobia. Muslims say gays are immoral and they get accused of homophobia. But they can sing Kung Fu Fighting to each other all day long, til a Chinaman walks in the room!
Gays can call Islam anti-gay, and they will be accused of islamophobia. Muslims say gays are immoral and they get accused of homophobia. But they can sing Kung Fu Fighting to each other all day long, til a Chinaman walks in the room! spencer999
  • Score: 2

10:10am Thu 6 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

@ipsofacto. Of course you will find pockets of religious people of all faith who are homophobic, as all humans are different. You don't have to have a faith to be homophobic in the first place.

But all that talk of googling a Christian or Jewish group on the other side of the world to search for a comparison is pointless and fruitless and distracting from THIS ISSUE. Homosexuality is illegal in nearly every prominently Muslim country, sometimes punishable by death, this is the LAW, you cannot remove this fact.
@ipsofacto. Of course you will find pockets of religious people of all faith who are homophobic, as all humans are different. You don't have to have a faith to be homophobic in the first place. But all that talk of googling a Christian or Jewish group on the other side of the world to search for a comparison is pointless and fruitless and distracting from THIS ISSUE. Homosexuality is illegal in nearly every prominently Muslim country, sometimes punishable by death, this is the LAW, you cannot remove this fact. DJFearRoss
  • Score: 2

10:31am Thu 6 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@DJFearRoss

The Anglican Church is going to split itself in two over the issues of women priests and gay/lesbian rights. I am not prepared to demonise a whole religion over Harrow Council's surrender to a small group of vile, homophobic individuals.

Homophobia is not just a Muslim problem. It exists in other religions too. The Somali women who protested against the adoption did so because they are bigoted Muslims. But their views are also held by many evangelical Christians. The problem is not Islamic-specific. It is to do with cultural retardation - which exists in all the Abrahamic religions and those of other faiths.
@DJFearRoss The Anglican Church is going to split itself in two over the issues of women priests and gay/lesbian rights. I am not prepared to demonise a whole religion over Harrow Council's surrender to a small group of vile, homophobic individuals. Homophobia is not just a Muslim problem. It exists in other religions too. The Somali women who protested against the adoption did so because they are bigoted Muslims. But their views are also held by many evangelical Christians. The problem is not Islamic-specific. It is to do with cultural retardation - which exists in all the Abrahamic religions and those of other faiths. ipsofacto
  • Score: -3

11:15am Thu 6 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

ipso, you are being politically correct and twisting yourself in knots to try and make excuses for Islam. No other religion executes gays, throws them off buildings, or gouges their eyes out, or cuts up little girls. By the way I see that there still has not been one single prosecution for FGM in the UK, because of "cultural sensitivities". Nowhere in the Muslim world are gays tolerated (officially).
ipso, you are being politically correct and twisting yourself in knots to try and make excuses for Islam. No other religion executes gays, throws them off buildings, or gouges their eyes out, or cuts up little girls. By the way I see that there still has not been one single prosecution for FGM in the UK, because of "cultural sensitivities". Nowhere in the Muslim world are gays tolerated (officially). spencer999
  • Score: 3

1:40pm Thu 6 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

@Ipsofacto
You've gone off course again. Every religion by definition CANNOT be the same. This is impossible. They're different ideologies, hence different ways of thinking. Then within the religion the people think differently.

Please tell us all when was the last time a homosexual was executed by the American government?
@Ipsofacto You've gone off course again. Every religion by definition CANNOT be the same. This is impossible. They're different ideologies, hence different ways of thinking. Then within the religion the people think differently. Please tell us all when was the last time a homosexual was executed by the American government? DJFearRoss
  • Score: 6

11:47pm Thu 20 Feb 14

ShukriAhmedHussein says...

CharlotteP wrote:
spencer999 wrote:
How wonderful it must be to have so much cultural enrichment. I'm sure life is just as lovely for gays in Somalia.

On the other hand, some people might say that it's completely wrong to tolerate a cult that thinks it's okay to slice the genitals off little girls.
Well said that person!! FGM is a massive issue but I dont see these 'protesters' worrying about that...
Charlotte, not every Somali family have their 'genitals sliced off' actually. FGM was actually protested about in Somalia and here but you wouldn't know that. This whole situation is around a small child taken from her 'unfit' mother and not taken into suitable, eligible and with same ethnicity people. The rules state that adoptees must be placed into the care of their families or friends and if not found, other people must adopt the child. Why should the females always protest about FGM when they do protest about something else.
[quote][p][bold]CharlotteP[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]spencer999[/bold] wrote: How wonderful it must be to have so much cultural enrichment. I'm sure life is just as lovely for gays in Somalia. On the other hand, some people might say that it's completely wrong to tolerate a cult that thinks it's okay to slice the genitals off little girls.[/p][/quote]Well said that person!! FGM is a massive issue but I dont see these 'protesters' worrying about that...[/p][/quote]Charlotte, not every Somali family have their 'genitals sliced off' actually. FGM was actually protested about in Somalia and here but you wouldn't know that. This whole situation is around a small child taken from her 'unfit' mother and not taken into suitable, eligible and with same ethnicity people. The rules state that adoptees must be placed into the care of their families or friends and if not found, other people must adopt the child. Why should the females always protest about FGM when they do protest about something else. ShukriAhmedHussein
  • Score: -1

11:51pm Thu 20 Feb 14

ShukriAhmedHussein says...

spencer999 wrote:
Harriet79 wrote:
I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint.

Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?
would you allow a Somali family to adopt a white baby girl, knowing that she might have her genitals sliced up? See? Being PC brings up all sorts of problems. Most PC people deal with it by putting their hands over their ears and saying la la la can't hear you.
Again, not all Somalis go with FGM and I am a Somali and I have not and will not be going into FGM. My mother and grandparents have not either so please note that not all do FGM.
[quote][p][bold]spencer999[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Harriet79[/bold] wrote: I suppose the Somali community might say the same to you regarding FGM, i.e. don't brush everyone with the same ugly paint. Being Somalian doesn't make you in favour of FGM and smoking khat, just like I'm sure being western doesn't make you abuse alcohol, drugs and contract STD's ....or do u want to discuss statistics of both these different abhorrent societal ills within both societies?[/p][/quote]would you allow a Somali family to adopt a white baby girl, knowing that she might have her genitals sliced up? See? Being PC brings up all sorts of problems. Most PC people deal with it by putting their hands over their ears and saying la la la can't hear you.[/p][/quote]Again, not all Somalis go with FGM and I am a Somali and I have not and will not be going into FGM. My mother and grandparents have not either so please note that not all do FGM. ShukriAhmedHussein
  • Score: -1

11:24am Mon 24 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

well Shukri, I am sure many of us will be reassured when you remind us that not all Somalians are child torturers and abusers... just most of them.
well Shukri, I am sure many of us will be reassured when you remind us that not all Somalians are child torturers and abusers... just most of them. spencer999
  • Score: 0

11:41am Mon 24 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

This article was dated 29th January and still there is no further news of what has happened to the little three year old girl. This means 27 days have passed since the article was written and still therer is no news abouit what has happened about the adoption.

Have the social workers and Council kept this under wraps for fear of upsetting people so near to the May elections? Are the Harrow Times colluding with the Council and operating a news blackout because of the sensitive nature of the case? There are questions that need answers.

All the protest has achieved, it would seem, is that this little three year old has been denied a home for 27 days and, if still ongoing, possibly a longer length of time.

Would the social workers and the Harrow Times provide readers with an update on this case?
This article was dated 29th January and still there is no further news of what has happened to the little three year old girl. This means 27 days have passed since the article was written and still therer is no news abouit what has happened about the adoption. Have the social workers and Council kept this under wraps for fear of upsetting people so near to the May elections? Are the Harrow Times colluding with the Council and operating a news blackout because of the sensitive nature of the case? There are questions that need answers. All the protest has achieved, it would seem, is that this little three year old has been denied a home for 27 days and, if still ongoing, possibly a longer length of time. Would the social workers and the Harrow Times provide readers with an update on this case? jackdaw
  • Score: 2

11:57am Mon 24 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

Jackdaw, while my opinion of the Somali "community" should be pretty obvious to all, my opinion of social workers is just as low. I recommend Christopher Booker's columns on the subject in the Sunday Telegraph. Social workers have a sinister and secret agenda a lot of the time.
Jackdaw, while my opinion of the Somali "community" should be pretty obvious to all, my opinion of social workers is just as low. I recommend Christopher Booker's columns on the subject in the Sunday Telegraph. Social workers have a sinister and secret agenda a lot of the time. spencer999
  • Score: 0

2:13pm Mon 24 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@jackdaw

"Would the social workers and the Harrow Times provide readers with an update on this case?"

I have just e-mailed Bruce Thain (who wrote the article above) about this to see if he can shed any light on the matter. On the 6th February I did e-mail my local Labour Councillor (Headstone South) about this matter but have not had the courtesy of even an acknowledgement. The Conservative Parliamentary candidate, Hannah David, was doing the rounds a couple of weeks ago and knocked on my door. I did explain to her that I was very concerned about this matter and she advised me to write to the local Conservative Party office and ask that someone call me about this. I did exactly that and *nobody* has called me. I am wondering whether I should even bother to vote for candidates of these two parties if they cannot be bothered to answer my correspondence.
@jackdaw "Would the social workers and the Harrow Times provide readers with an update on this case?" I have just e-mailed Bruce Thain (who wrote the article above) about this to see if he can shed any light on the matter. On the 6th February I did e-mail my local Labour Councillor (Headstone South) about this matter but have not had the courtesy of even an acknowledgement. The Conservative Parliamentary candidate, Hannah David, was doing the rounds a couple of weeks ago and knocked on my door. I did explain to her that I was very concerned about this matter and she advised me to write to the local Conservative Party office and ask that someone call me about this. I did exactly that and *nobody* has called me. I am wondering whether I should even bother to vote for candidates of these two parties if they cannot be bothered to answer my correspondence. ipsofacto
  • Score: 2

2:25pm Mon 24 Feb 14

spencer999 says...

Ipso, I would rather cut my hand off than vote for any of the three main parties. Well, a slight exaggeration maybe.
Ipso, I would rather cut my hand off than vote for any of the three main parties. Well, a slight exaggeration maybe. spencer999
  • Score: 0

9:11pm Mon 24 Feb 14

ShukriAhmedHussein says...

spencer999 wrote:
well Shukri, I am sure many of us will be reassured when you remind us that not all Somalians are child torturers and abusers... just most of them.
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, Spencer. The only people who do this are the ones in Somalia and Kenya and I know it's wrong. Also, not only Somalis do this. Ghanaians do this too but who cares about them. Jfc.
[quote][p][bold]spencer999[/bold] wrote: well Shukri, I am sure many of us will be reassured when you remind us that not all Somalians are child torturers and abusers... just most of them.[/p][/quote]Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, Spencer. The only people who do this are the ones in Somalia and Kenya and I know it's wrong. Also, not only Somalis do this. Ghanaians do this too but who cares about them. Jfc. ShukriAhmedHussein
  • Score: -1

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