'Alleyway being used as toilet'

This Is Local London: Doreen Woods and Patricia Brannagan led the campaign against the closure of the public toilet in Albert Crescent Doreen Woods and Patricia Brannagan led the campaign against the closure of the public toilet in Albert Crescent

An alleyway is still regularly being used as a toilet three years after nearby public conveniences closed, it is claimed.

A shopworker says the stench of urine and human faeces can be found in the walkway near the junction of Chingford Mount Road and Albert Avenue.

There have been repeated complaints of alleyways being used to answer the call of nature since the closure of the council-owned public toilets in Albert Crescent in 2010.

Nick Lewis, a technical engineer at Alarms ‘n’ Sounds in Chingford Mount Road, said human faeces were discovered behind the shop – and not for the first time.

“We used to have this happen occasionally at two in the morning, but now as we’re coming to work at 9am there will be a gentleman there relieving himself,” he said.

“The other day at 11am my mother in law saw a man urinating up the wall.

“We say to them all the time ‘What are you doing?’ and they say ‘What am I supposed to do? There’s no toilet.”

Conservative councillor Jemma Hemsted has vowed to tackle the problem.

She said: “We’ll be looking to work with residents and business owners to get the situation resolved because it’s disgusting and they shouldn’t have to be living with it.”

Businesses were encouraged to allow the public to use their facilities when the public toilets were controversially sold-off to make way for development.

Currently The Obelisk pub in Old Church Road, The Kings Ford Pub in Chingford Mount Road, Costa Coffee in Old Church Road and Chingford Mount Cemetery are accessible.

But Mr Lewis said the scheme is not publicised enough.

“This is our place of work. There is a sign at the Mount outlining places that have agreed to the toilet scheme but it needs to be publicised.”

The council has been approached for comment.

Comments (13)

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1:31pm Wed 4 Dec 13

Billy Yerache says...

What are people supposed to do when they are caught short when all the public loos are shut or closed or non existent?

At least some people are not openly using the street whilst many do.

When you have got to go you have got to go.
What are people supposed to do when they are caught short when all the public loos are shut or closed or non existent? At least some people are not openly using the street whilst many do. When you have got to go you have got to go. Billy Yerache

3:33pm Wed 4 Dec 13

Helen, Walthamstow says...

I've always thought closing the public toilets across the borough was a huge mistake.

It's just plain unreasonable to expect businesses (pubs, cafes, restaurants) to fill the gap. If you were running such a business, would you be delighted to have people running in all day just to use your loos without being customers? I can't help noticing that quite a few of the places that originally signed up to the scheme to open their toilets to the general public seem now to have pulled out.

Decent public toilets are not only a "convenience" issue, they also serve a role in public health and enable folk who need to visit the toilet regularly to get out and about.
I've always thought closing the public toilets across the borough was a huge mistake. It's just plain unreasonable to expect businesses (pubs, cafes, restaurants) to fill the gap. If you were running such a business, would you be delighted to have people running in all day just to use your loos without being customers? I can't help noticing that quite a few of the places that originally signed up to the scheme to open their toilets to the general public seem now to have pulled out. Decent public toilets are not only a "convenience" issue, they also serve a role in public health and enable folk who need to visit the toilet regularly to get out and about. Helen, Walthamstow

7:51pm Wed 4 Dec 13

mdj says...

The building in the photo won a national prize for the best loo in the country, something you might hope a very under-achieving council would take pride in. It was nearly new, sparkling clean, and staffed by friendly people: a rare success story.

The loos were marked for closure as part of Mr Loakes' campaign to increase the Council's woeful Star rating a few years back. The reasoning was,' If a service doesn't exist ( and it's not compulsory for councils to provide loos, amazingly), we can't be marked down for it'.

This thinking was behind his attempt to trash the William Morris Gallery at the same time, until public opinion forced a U-turn. A huge success had to be forced on our Council decision-makers!

It was an added pleasure for Mr Loakes, having had his backside kicked by the electors of Northampton South, to knock down a popular facility in a Tory-voting area. He virtually drove the digger himself, such was his haste.

it is alarming to think that this man will be pushing himself forward for the Council leadership again after the election. Is the Labour talent pool really so shallow?
The building in the photo won a national prize for the best loo in the country, something you might hope a very under-achieving council would take pride in. It was nearly new, sparkling clean, and staffed by friendly people: a rare success story. The loos were marked for closure as part of Mr Loakes' campaign to increase the Council's woeful Star rating a few years back. The reasoning was,' If a service doesn't exist ( and it's not compulsory for councils to provide loos, amazingly), we can't be marked down for it'. This thinking was behind his attempt to trash the William Morris Gallery at the same time, until public opinion forced a U-turn. A huge success had to be forced on our Council decision-makers! It was an added pleasure for Mr Loakes, having had his backside kicked by the electors of Northampton South, to knock down a popular facility in a Tory-voting area. He virtually drove the digger himself, such was his haste. it is alarming to think that this man will be pushing himself forward for the Council leadership again after the election. Is the Labour talent pool really so shallow? mdj

8:25pm Wed 4 Dec 13

Billy Yerache says...

Helen, Walthamstow wrote:
I've always thought closing the public toilets across the borough was a huge mistake.

It's just plain unreasonable to expect businesses (pubs, cafes, restaurants) to fill the gap. If you were running such a business, would you be delighted to have people running in all day just to use your loos without being customers? I can't help noticing that quite a few of the places that originally signed up to the scheme to open their toilets to the general public seem now to have pulled out.

Decent public toilets are not only a "convenience" issue, they also serve a role in public health and enable folk who need to visit the toilet regularly to get out and about.
I think they closed them as some people used them for anti-social activity and drilled holes in the cubicles for one reason or another.
[quote][p][bold]Helen, Walthamstow[/bold] wrote: I've always thought closing the public toilets across the borough was a huge mistake. It's just plain unreasonable to expect businesses (pubs, cafes, restaurants) to fill the gap. If you were running such a business, would you be delighted to have people running in all day just to use your loos without being customers? I can't help noticing that quite a few of the places that originally signed up to the scheme to open their toilets to the general public seem now to have pulled out. Decent public toilets are not only a "convenience" issue, they also serve a role in public health and enable folk who need to visit the toilet regularly to get out and about.[/p][/quote]I think they closed them as some people used them for anti-social activity and drilled holes in the cubicles for one reason or another. Billy Yerache

9:21pm Wed 4 Dec 13

WalthamWabbit says...

This just goes to show the kind of Vile Inhabitants that regularly stroll the streets of the Waltham Forest Borough. I note that despite the enormous outlay of Publicity Materials telling us what to do with our effluviums and Councillor Clyde Loaks' frequent appearances on Public Radio extolling the virtues of his Crack Squad of Neighbourhood Enforcers that such practises still take place with free abandon as though urine, spittle and fecal deposits were the common currency of our neighbourhood Back Alleys.

At least Councillor Jemma Hemsted is on hand with her Marigolds and bog brush and a big bottle of Lemon Scented Mister Muscle to clear away such public Richard The Thirds. Perhaps she can flush away some of the corrupt Councillors such as Geoff Hammond while she does so?
This just goes to show the kind of Vile Inhabitants that regularly stroll the streets of the Waltham Forest Borough. I note that despite the enormous outlay of Publicity Materials telling us what to do with our effluviums and Councillor Clyde Loaks' frequent appearances on Public Radio extolling the virtues of his Crack Squad of Neighbourhood Enforcers that such practises still take place with free abandon as though urine, spittle and fecal deposits were the common currency of our neighbourhood Back Alleys. At least Councillor Jemma Hemsted is on hand with her Marigolds and bog brush and a big bottle of Lemon Scented Mister Muscle to clear away such public Richard The Thirds. Perhaps she can flush away some of the corrupt Councillors such as Geoff Hammond while she does so? WalthamWabbit

1:12am Thu 5 Dec 13

Billy Yerache says...

mdj wrote:
The building in the photo won a national prize for the best loo in the country, something you might hope a very under-achieving council would take pride in. It was nearly new, sparkling clean, and staffed by friendly people: a rare success story.

The loos were marked for closure as part of Mr Loakes' campaign to increase the Council's woeful Star rating a few years back. The reasoning was,' If a service doesn't exist ( and it's not compulsory for councils to provide loos, amazingly), we can't be marked down for it'.

This thinking was behind his attempt to trash the William Morris Gallery at the same time, until public opinion forced a U-turn. A huge success had to be forced on our Council decision-makers!

It was an added pleasure for Mr Loakes, having had his backside kicked by the electors of Northampton South, to knock down a popular facility in a Tory-voting area. He virtually drove the digger himself, such was his haste.

it is alarming to think that this man will be pushing himself forward for the Council leadership again after the election. Is the Labour talent pool really so shallow?
Have these people never had an experience where you could do whatever through the eye of a needle?

It is not a pleasant experience, desperation follows and you have to make an executive decision, normally finding a back passage to disappear down to mitigate embarrassment.

It is not nice but there is only one alternative.
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: The building in the photo won a national prize for the best loo in the country, something you might hope a very under-achieving council would take pride in. It was nearly new, sparkling clean, and staffed by friendly people: a rare success story. The loos were marked for closure as part of Mr Loakes' campaign to increase the Council's woeful Star rating a few years back. The reasoning was,' If a service doesn't exist ( and it's not compulsory for councils to provide loos, amazingly), we can't be marked down for it'. This thinking was behind his attempt to trash the William Morris Gallery at the same time, until public opinion forced a U-turn. A huge success had to be forced on our Council decision-makers! It was an added pleasure for Mr Loakes, having had his backside kicked by the electors of Northampton South, to knock down a popular facility in a Tory-voting area. He virtually drove the digger himself, such was his haste. it is alarming to think that this man will be pushing himself forward for the Council leadership again after the election. Is the Labour talent pool really so shallow?[/p][/quote]Have these people never had an experience where you could do whatever through the eye of a needle? It is not a pleasant experience, desperation follows and you have to make an executive decision, normally finding a back passage to disappear down to mitigate embarrassment. It is not nice but there is only one alternative. Billy Yerache

9:27am Thu 5 Dec 13

Don't Give Up says...

mdj's comments are very true. In fact, it was only because the three ladies who led the campaign to keep the toilets open who said that if they closed they threatened to have a "sit in" at the site, the council put up a hoarding and within a couple of weeks tore the 10 year old building that cost £250,000 to build. It was replaced by some flower beds which in the past few months were removed making the site a complete eye sore.
Before the building was knocked down, Cllr. Loakes said there were a number of alternative nearby premises where people could use which included the library and the WF Direct Shop both of which were subsequently closed by the council. Hows that for forward planning?
mdj's comments are very true. In fact, it was only because the three ladies who led the campaign to keep the toilets open who said that if they closed they threatened to have a "sit in" at the site, the council put up a hoarding and within a couple of weeks tore the 10 year old building that cost £250,000 to build. It was replaced by some flower beds which in the past few months were removed making the site a complete eye sore. Before the building was knocked down, Cllr. Loakes said there were a number of alternative nearby premises where people could use which included the library and the WF Direct Shop both of which were subsequently closed by the council. Hows that for forward planning? Don't Give Up

11:46am Thu 5 Dec 13

dbisping says...

Has any investigation been undertaken on the work carried out at the Mount, the area was closed off for close to 4 months while the old but at least nice look flowerbeds were torn up and a drab 'open area' relaid,

Within a week of the that being laid the area was closed again and 90% of the slabs were all taken up again and they are re-laying them at the moment? Why???
Has any investigation been undertaken on the work carried out at the Mount, the area was closed off for close to 4 months while the old but at least nice look flowerbeds were torn up and a drab 'open area' relaid, Within a week of the that being laid the area was closed again and 90% of the slabs were all taken up again and they are re-laying them at the moment? Why??? dbisping

12:24pm Thu 5 Dec 13

HottRedMan says...

I'm sorry, but I a GLAD that people are doing this, the idiots at the council who said it cost £50k to run the toilets every year, but yet they don't complain when they have salaries near £200k and beyond.

Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??? Many of them bar or lock of toilets unless to customers and most people WOULD feel guilty about going into a premises just to use the toilet and they are not purchasing anything. Staff would also make it awkward for people to go and use toilets, even in Chingford Mount.
Even in 3rd world countries they have public toilets in places where there are huge amounts of shops.
I'm sorry, but I a GLAD that people are doing this, the idiots at the council who said it cost £50k to run the toilets every year, but yet they don't complain when they have salaries near £200k and beyond. Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??? Many of them bar or lock of toilets unless to customers and most people WOULD feel guilty about going into a premises just to use the toilet and they are not purchasing anything. Staff would also make it awkward for people to go and use toilets, even in Chingford Mount. Even in 3rd world countries they have public toilets in places where there are huge amounts of shops. HottRedMan

2:14pm Thu 5 Dec 13

Billy Yerache says...

HottRedMan wrote:
I'm sorry, but I a GLAD that people are doing this, the idiots at the council who said it cost £50k to run the toilets every year, but yet they don't complain when they have salaries near £200k and beyond.

Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??? Many of them bar or lock of toilets unless to customers and most people WOULD feel guilty about going into a premises just to use the toilet and they are not purchasing anything. Staff would also make it awkward for people to go and use toilets, even in Chingford Mount.
Even in 3rd world countries they have public toilets in places where there are huge amounts of shops.
Some bright spark at the council started to replace the Toilets with the automatic ones which must have cost a great deal more than running the ones they already had.

These were removed after a short while and probably disposed of, like the one that was at the foot of Kings head Hill, there for a couple of years only?
[quote][p][bold]HottRedMan[/bold] wrote: I'm sorry, but I a GLAD that people are doing this, the idiots at the council who said it cost £50k to run the toilets every year, but yet they don't complain when they have salaries near £200k and beyond. Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??? Many of them bar or lock of toilets unless to customers and most people WOULD feel guilty about going into a premises just to use the toilet and they are not purchasing anything. Staff would also make it awkward for people to go and use toilets, even in Chingford Mount. Even in 3rd world countries they have public toilets in places where there are huge amounts of shops.[/p][/quote]Some bright spark at the council started to replace the Toilets with the automatic ones which must have cost a great deal more than running the ones they already had. These were removed after a short while and probably disposed of, like the one that was at the foot of Kings head Hill, there for a couple of years only? Billy Yerache

3:41pm Thu 5 Dec 13

mdj says...

'Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??'

A fee was to be paid to whoever signed up, but very small in relation to the possible trouble that might result - £400 p.a. comes to mind. As a supplementary service it might have been useful: now it;s a shaky lifeline.

All these questions were asked before the scheme came into operation.
A lot of public loos were indeed very grotty, and attracted undesirable behaviour: the one in Chingford was staffed, which answers the question why the others became so.
Had loos been widened out in their use to become local info and help points, with an emergency phone point, they could have policed themselves. Nobody would have objected to a small charge, even.
But so many decisions aren't based on logic, but bullying, status and point scoring, as here.
Now there's a public health problem; who's costing that against the 'savings'?
'Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??' A fee was to be paid to whoever signed up, but very small in relation to the possible trouble that might result - £400 p.a. comes to mind. As a supplementary service it might have been useful: now it;s a shaky lifeline. All these questions were asked before the scheme came into operation. A lot of public loos were indeed very grotty, and attracted undesirable behaviour: the one in Chingford was staffed, which answers the question why the others became so. Had loos been widened out in their use to become local info and help points, with an emergency phone point, they could have policed themselves. Nobody would have objected to a small charge, even. But so many decisions aren't based on logic, but bullying, status and point scoring, as here. Now there's a public health problem; who's costing that against the 'savings'? mdj

7:34pm Thu 5 Dec 13

Billy Yerache says...

mdj wrote:
'Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??'

A fee was to be paid to whoever signed up, but very small in relation to the possible trouble that might result - £400 p.a. comes to mind. As a supplementary service it might have been useful: now it;s a shaky lifeline.

All these questions were asked before the scheme came into operation.
A lot of public loos were indeed very grotty, and attracted undesirable behaviour: the one in Chingford was staffed, which answers the question why the others became so.
Had loos been widened out in their use to become local info and help points, with an emergency phone point, they could have policed themselves. Nobody would have objected to a small charge, even.
But so many decisions aren't based on logic, but bullying, status and point scoring, as here.
Now there's a public health problem; who's costing that against the 'savings'?
'Local Info and Help Points?'

What?

Like , 'where is the bog roll mate?'

'Er there are a few sheets left in trap two!'
[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote: 'Do they really think telling businesses to let people use their toilet would work??' A fee was to be paid to whoever signed up, but very small in relation to the possible trouble that might result - £400 p.a. comes to mind. As a supplementary service it might have been useful: now it;s a shaky lifeline. All these questions were asked before the scheme came into operation. A lot of public loos were indeed very grotty, and attracted undesirable behaviour: the one in Chingford was staffed, which answers the question why the others became so. Had loos been widened out in their use to become local info and help points, with an emergency phone point, they could have policed themselves. Nobody would have objected to a small charge, even. But so many decisions aren't based on logic, but bullying, status and point scoring, as here. Now there's a public health problem; who's costing that against the 'savings'?[/p][/quote]'Local Info and Help Points?' What? Like , 'where is the bog roll mate?' 'Er there are a few sheets left in trap two!' Billy Yerache

11:52am Fri 6 Dec 13

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