Firefighters must live in the real world too: Editor's Eye comment

10:06am Thursday 1st November 2012 in News By Andrew Parkes, News Shopper editor

Are firefighters living in the real world? Are firefighters living in the real world?

AT one time firefighters were a protected species, they were totally beyond criticism.

Police officers were also held in high esteem, but they could be called to task and weren’t untouchable in the same way.

Then, in the Queen’s Silver Jubilee year firefighters called their first national strike demanding a 30 per cent pay rise.

At this point they moved from being untouchables to being ordinary people, albeit people who do a very important job.

Almost overnight members of the public saw this greed for what it was and the facts firefighters already received ridiculously generous pension arrangements, were free to have second jobs and actually got paid for sleeping were also brought into focus for the first time.

Firefighters have since gone on strike many more times and slipped further in the public perception. They still retire early, sleep at work and plumb in toilet cisterns in their down time.

Maybe this is reasonable, maybe it isn’t, but one thing’s for sure, firefighters are now very much seen as ordinary people.

And, having chosen to give up their exhalted position to join the real world, they must now accept they have relinqueshed their invincibility cloaks and must be subject to all the same challenges we all face.

Exactly what cuts should be made is not a matter for us, such decisions will be taken by the politicians we have elected, but that firefighters are forced to cut costs, reduce waste and make necessary redundancies, just like the rest of us have been forced to do, can only be right and proper.

What do you think? Do you agree or disagree with the views expressed here? Do firefighters live in a privileged bubble and need to accept the harsh realities of cutbacks and modernisation, or do they deserve more protection than people in other jobs? Add your comments below.

Comments(90)

cookster says...
10:40am Thu 1 Nov 12

How edgy. Littlejohn must be quaking in his boots.

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Outandabout says...
10:57am Thu 1 Nov 12

If only this wasn't designed to get people's backs up. If this was written by the editor then resign. This is worse than could be written by any troll. If you want a reasonable debate then remove all the rubbish that any Sun reader could concoct and behave like an adult. I could challenge every point but cant be bothered. Dealing with you is like having the Chancellor of the Exchequer faced with 'I manage to balance my bank account, why can't you balance the economy'. Intelligent debate or mindless rant. Your choice.

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Outandabout says...
11:00am Thu 1 Nov 12

cookster wrote:
How edgy. Littlejohn must be quaking in his boots.
Exactly. What I said but succinct!

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edbcaf says...
11:24am Thu 1 Nov 12

The Fire Brigade is a service, it's a service that belongs to the general public not the government although they pay the wages, if you don't want it any more that's fine but only the general public will suffer, I can guarantee there will still be a fire engine available to respond to the Houses of Parliament but to the incident below, well no.

http://www.newsshopp
er.co.uk/news/dartfo
rd_swanley/10020633.
Dartford_woman_burne
d_after_tackling_fir
e_with_dressing_gown
/

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Biggin Hill Resident says...
11:35am Thu 1 Nov 12

This will be the same editor that committed a criminal offence last week by blabbing about the police operation by Nugent because it made him late for work - despite the fact they were operating on the other side of the road...? Oh.. well in that case I take this article very seriously.

Oh wait, I don't. My mistake.

Editor - I suggest that before you write tripe like this to go out with the emergency services (all of them) on a Friday or Saturday night and see what they really have to put up with.
Then ask yourself, do you deserve your salary for sitting on your backside?

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Biggin Hill Resident says...
11:36am Thu 1 Nov 12

One more thing - editors eye?
Editors Brown Eye more like.

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PaulErith says...
11:52am Thu 1 Nov 12

I think they do a very important job and do it very well. Obviously, they need to be reasonable with wage demands just like anyone else, but they are a vital service and they shouldn't be cut.

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TheProf. says...
11:56am Thu 1 Nov 12

Mr Editor,
Obviously you have no idea how the LFB operate and rely on false information to publish a poor article. May i sggest you visit any fire station. The firefighters themselves would be more than happy to tell you exactly how it is.
Retiring early? The new fire pension scheme (NFPS) requires 40 years service with a retirement age of 60. Quite an age to be carrying out firefighting operations.....

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Methodman says...
12:52pm Thu 1 Nov 12

So what does the London Fire Brigade cost each council tax paying household in London?
Seventy six pence per week.
Did you think we will get a rebate?

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ADJ says...
1:19pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Wonder if "Mr Editor" would like a job that gives you nightmares? I'm married to an ex-fireman - 21 years service he did. He still has bad dreams about people, elderly and young, that died in fires and road accidents - even after more than 15 years out of the job. He says you never forgeet. It takes a very special type of person to do the job that our firefighters do and I think they (and the police/ambulance etc.) should get more recognition for what they do.

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Outandabout says...
1:58pm Thu 1 Nov 12

It is a poor attempt to wind people up. Don't respond to it, treat it with the contempt it deserves. You will never get anything worth arguing about with the 'editors eye' that an Amoeba couldn't answer

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
2:02pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Wanted Dead or Alive Andrew Parkes.

Reward ......?????? Contact the fire brigade union.

;)

Well Andy you rocked a few people from their Thursday slumber. How very dare you. Whatever next.

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neighbour says...
2:03pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Great article! I shall think of it every time I pick up my walking-stick and down my meds which I still need for my numerous fractures and various other injuries sustained when I was installing toilet cisterns or asleep in bed. During my 20+ years in the London Fire Brigade I never once asked for sympathy, but then again I didn't expect to be vilified in the press. I shall pass on the link to a few brigade widows and maimed ex-firefighters. Or not, as the case may be. And as for ADJ's observation about her husband having nightmares: they both have my sympathy. Me? I actually dread going to sleep. Having said all that, I'd do it all over again, proud and glad to have done so. My police and ambulance mates would, I'm sure, concur.

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Outandabout says...
2:07pm Thu 1 Nov 12

The editor is an ****. Votes please.

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Magma1 says...
3:16pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Quote ("Firefighters have since gone on strike many more times")
That is factually incorrect.
I have been on strike twice in 30 years for a total of 6 days.
I don't know what your agenda is for writing this article.
Maybe you should have joined.

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Gypo.Joe says...
4:38pm Thu 1 Nov 12

You lot need to open your eyes, I find this article pretty fair. None of us like change, but we have all had to change. Like it or lump it. If our current firemen dont like it LEAVE, there's plenty who will do the job. That's the hard facts of life now for all of us.
Now we would all love a fire station on every corner, and a policeman, who pays for it though ?

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chuck fireswift says...
5:19pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Fantastic bit of reporting do you check facts or just print for a reaction! As you may have guessed for my name I'm a firefighter. A few facts you may like to know 1 FF pay at least £300 pounds a month towards there pensions. 2 If FF do have second jobs they pay tax which must be good for the economy. 3 There is nothing to stop you doing another job when your not writing rubbish like this. 4 We know cuts are coming and unfortunately it will be the public that suffer. 5 We miss our children opening present on Christmas day because we're on duty. 6 We now have to work 40 year's before we get our pensions (don't think that's early retirement).

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Gypo.Joe says...
5:25pm Thu 1 Nov 12

chuck fireswift boo hoo, what and you think lots of other people dont have to do the same.
I'll have to work for over 50 years before I can retire. Early retirement ,,,I wish !!

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neighbour says...
5:35pm Thu 1 Nov 12

"chuck fireswift boo hoo, what and you think lots of other people dont have to do the same.
I'll have to work for over 50 years before I can retire. Early retirement ,,,I wish !!”

Early retirement. Hmm... Mine was old-school 55 but now it's been raised: the young'ns have to contribute a **** sight more to their pension and they have to work for longer. But how long do you last after you've got your retirement presentation axe? (Paid for by your mates by the way.) A lot less than the sofa-bound commentators. The job demands physical fitness but that doesn't do much if you're up and down several times a night when some members of the 'workforce' are safely tucked up. A few mates of mine lasted less than six months, so that's a weight off your mind, not having such layabouts poncing off the state. Moral: drunken commenting is sometimes as irritating as drunken driving but with no danger involved, so crack on; we all need a laugh.

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Gypo.Joe says...
6:19pm Thu 1 Nov 12

'neighbour' just another cry baby. How about construction, mining, ship building, farming, need I go on ?

You lot shafted yaself, now deal with it. You had the good years and like all those union jobs its over, finito, get it. As far as I know not one person is forced into any job, if you never liked your job or its consequences get out and get into something else.
Yes we do need a fire service of course, a modern service though, living within a budget.

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neighbour says...
6:55pm Thu 1 Nov 12

'neighbour' just another cry baby. How about construction, mining, ship building, farming, need I go on ?' Not really - you may resist the temptation for the sake of our dear readers. And on a serious note: I did enjoy my job despite its dangers and discomfort. I'm just curious to know what your own experience is of danger. (No answer required.) But you're right: mining, agriculture and construction all rate more dangerous jobs than fire-fighting, and perhaps they should all get out if they don't like it, (by the way, I actually liked my job) but that doesn't warrant half-baked and uninformed ideas from some hack insinuating that we fitted toilets and spent our working lives in bed. I suspect I'm hissing into the wind here. Life's too short. I really should get out more but not as much as I'd like on the pension I get - into which I contributed about a quarter of my salary. No, you didn't know that, did you? And these days firefighters are even worse off. Over and out. I have to watch some paint dry.

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Gypo.Joe says...
7:25pm Thu 1 Nov 12

neighbour so many assumptions from you, now you know nothing about me, NOTHING.
I've been self employed all my life, what I get is what I work for, nothing more nothing less. Thats my choice, you had yours, you chose now live with it.

Quit ya **** FFS. Be honest the job you did has changed, 'elf and safety' has taken much of the danger away and lets all be thankful for that.


While you watch the paint dry, I'll watch me lawn grow OK. ;)

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Methodman says...
7:27pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Risk and hazard are two different things.
Firefighters have become very good at identifying a hazard and evaluating the level of risk posed by hazards at scenes where they have just arrived after something has gone wrong.
Quite often we attend workplaces where the professionalism of the normal workforce leaves a lot to be desired.Firefighters will be sent in to make safe situations which may already have claimed the lives of people who work in that industry day in and day out,the luxury of a week or a day to write a risk assessment is not available.
The fact that relatively few firefighters are killed in the UK is a testament to their ability to do a top class job.
The author of the article is seriously mistaken if he believes the Public distrust firefighters.A quick google search will show that firefighters are at the top of the most trusted Professions in the UK,Journalists are near the bottom alongside Poliiticians and Lawyers.Articles such as the one above show why journalists are not trusted by the majority of the population.
There is a genuine story under the surface regarding mismanagement and possible corruption regarding private contracts awarded by the LFB,unfortunately there seems to be a shortage of honest hard-working investagitive journalists.Perhaps it is easier to bribe politicians and police officers to get information or hack the phones of the parents of murder victims than to do real investagitive work.

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Gypo.Joe says...
7:39pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Methodman I dont want to take nothing away from the fire service they do a great job. That said lets be honest when they went on strike service personel coped very well with old antiquated equipment. Nuff said.

Building codes, electrical codes, fire and smoke alarms have changed things all for the better. It aint the 40s 50s 60s 70s etc anymore. We need a modern slick cost effective fire service.

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Methodman says...
7:59pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Armed forces did 5% of the work that firefighters normally do.
Only an idiot or a journalist believes that firefighters only attend emergencies.
Constant training,maintenance of equipment ,inspection of commercial and private premises,testing hydrants and so on are what fills the bulk of our working day.
Having to actually drop whatever we are doing to go on blues and twos to an emergency is seen as a failure by many senior officers.
That is why so much of a modern firefighters work revolves around prevention work,much to the surprise of some former armed forces personnel who joined the brigade hoping to repeat their strike breaking experience of sitting around all day waiting for a shout.
Modern regulations regarding foam filled furniture has helped reduce casualties from fire,provision of smoke alarms and other prevention advice supplied by firefighters has driven the numbers down.

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casper999 says...
8:00pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Cuts should be made, is not a matter for us ?,
So i should not be alarmed by the following 17 fire stations that made be closed to save money.

Acton
Belsize
Bow
Clapham
Clerkenwell
Downham
Islington
Kensington
Kingsland
Knightsbridge
New Cross
Peckham
Silvertown
Southwark
Westminster
Whitechapel
Woolwich

if these are given the green light to be closed, Fatal fires would rise, Delayed reponse times to incidents/fires, Im sure queen would be happy to know that nearest stations to Buck Palaces, Westminster and Knightsbridge would be closed.
London Firefighter are proud to give London a first class service, not a second class, with less stations, less Fire Engines. I would support them if they striked over these cuts.
Boris didnt worry about cash, when we had the Oympic games for 4 weeks.

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Gypo.Joe says...
8:03pm Thu 1 Nov 12

"Modern regulations regarding foam filled furniture has helped reduce casualties from fire,provision of smoke alarms and other prevention advice supplied by firefighters has driven the numbers down.”

I rest my case. No need for so many fire stations and personnel then.

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Havis1 says...
8:16pm Thu 1 Nov 12

So according to the above firefighters "get paid to sleep". I don't see you doing a 15 hour shift just sitting at a desk, let alone doing a manual hard job where their alertness is key in ensuring that all procedures are carried out effectively to save lives. I'm sure if the person who wrote this house was on fire and it was their children trapped inside, they wouldn't be complaining about the firefighters being rested and working to the best of their ability. Also, on the subject of money, maybe you should get paid less for writing utter crap that isn't even factually correct? The fire brigade is a vital service to this community, you however are a waste of resources. I'd liked to see you spend one shift working as a fireman without sleeping during it, because of course that is what you think they should do. In the future i think you should, if you're going to do the injustice of posting your views on anything, make it on something correct and important.

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Marty1979 says...
10:08pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
The editor is an ****. Votes please.
perhaps that should be the survey next week

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neonis says...
10:46pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Firefighters do a brilliant job and are worth every penny they get end of !!!

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Outandabout says...
10:54pm Thu 1 Nov 12

neonis wrote:
Firefighters do a brilliant job and are worth every penny they get end of !!!
Yes and he is a sensitive a s s too, considering it's an animal, yet it was blanked out. What next editor you going to slag off nurses?. You think this was a responsible venture when all you wanted to do was wind people up with such a crass statement? You really are a prize a r s e h o l e.

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Outandabout says...
11:00pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Editor: You want a real debate on this topic then I'll debate with you live, in a room but you better come armed with some facts. Facts like what Pre determined attendance means, what the shift system is, what the work routines are, what the pay formula was and is, How the pay relates to other workers and whether it has kept pace (it hasn't by the way) and everything else about that profession. I'll debate you, I'll beat you and after that when it comes to slagging off public service workers you had best shut the f up

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chuck liddell says...
7:48am Fri 2 Nov 12

gypo Joe. you said that 'neighbour' knows NOTHING about you, well you obviously know NOTHING about the fire brigade and how it is run. To say that service personnel coped well during the last strike is an absolute joke!!! It was a complete shambles and members of the public were on the news (london tonight) explaining this. We all know there are going to be cuts and station closures. We all know it will affect firefighters, who will have to move to other stations or be made redundant, but more than anything, it will affect you, the public.

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zampa says...
10:29am Fri 2 Nov 12

What tripe writing! This governement has cut and is continuing to cut the Police srevice and you'll be lucky if the Police turn up, the Ambulance service is getting the same, what next just prey you don't need the Fire service as they may not turn up? get real.

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
10:54am Fri 2 Nov 12

chuck liddell are you the Union mouthpiece ?

I'm just asking the question.

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Badzeroid says...
11:58am Fri 2 Nov 12

If you forgive the pun, I'd say you've burned a few bridges with this article, Mr Parkes.

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Outandabout says...
12:16pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
neonis wrote:
Firefighters do a brilliant job and are worth every penny they get end of !!!
Yes and he is a sensitive a s s too, considering it's an animal, yet it was blanked out. What next editor you going to slag off nurses?. You think this was a responsible venture when all you wanted to do was wind people up with such a crass statement? You really are a prize a r s e h o l e.
Aplogies Neonis. I meant to quote the person above you Marty1979. My comment makes sense when it is linked to 'Marty'

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Outandabout says...
12:24pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Guess who ;) AGAIN ! wrote:
chuck liddell are you the Union mouthpiece ?

I'm just asking the question.
You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who defends a service is a union spokesperson. There are senior officers in the London brigade who will strike next time because thes propsals are a cut too far. This is YOUR money, your 6p a day or whatever it is. bear in mind your money went on a project that is hardly used and cost ratepayers £36 million for a service that wasn't needed, serves no purpose and is hardly used. I'm talkign about the cable car across the Thames. Boris has done lots of little spendy things like this over the last couple of years. 'A Risk' = 6 minutes. if your home or workplace is an an A risk area (heavily populated or industrialised) then your fire enghine will arrive within 6 minutes, whether at 3am or 3pm. That is OK provided they are not on another call. So if Woolwich closes and your fire is in say a flat or house in Woolwich BUT Plumstead is already on a call you will be waiting for Erith to attend. People will die but not enough for it to lead to a reversal of cuts because not enough will die. It is an acceptable risk and an acceptable loss. This is what we have Boris to thank for. Statistically fires occur in the less well off areas. That isn't where the cuts are happening. This is the real Boris. the one people didn't think they were voting for

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Outandabout says...
12:28pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Oh and this paper carried a banner 'Not Ken again'. So thank you Newsshopper, your readers who won't have fire cover thank you for what you did. Your readers who might die for lack of a fire engine within 6 minutes thank you. Well done for being part of the mearues that will see fewer Police and less fire cover, hell at least we have the cable car. Ken Livingstone pledged not to cut police or firefighters.

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Outandabout says...
12:30pm Fri 2 Nov 12

When is Andrew Parkes going to come out from behind the curtains and defend his position?

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
2:13pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Guess who ;) AGAIN ! wrote:
chuck liddell are you the Union mouthpiece ?

I'm just asking the question.
You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who defends a service is a union spokesperson. There are senior officers in the London brigade who will strike next time because thes propsals are a cut too far. This is YOUR money, your 6p a day or whatever it is. bear in mind your money went on a project that is hardly used and cost ratepayers £36 million for a service that wasn't needed, serves no purpose and is hardly used. I'm talkign about the cable car across the Thames. Boris has done lots of little spendy things like this over the last couple of years. 'A Risk' = 6 minutes. if your home or workplace is an an A risk area (heavily populated or industrialised) then your fire enghine will arrive within 6 minutes, whether at 3am or 3pm. That is OK provided they are not on another call. So if Woolwich closes and your fire is in say a flat or house in Woolwich BUT Plumstead is already on a call you will be waiting for Erith to attend. People will die but not enough for it to lead to a reversal of cuts because not enough will die. It is an acceptable risk and an acceptable loss. This is what we have Boris to thank for. Statistically fires occur in the less well off areas. That isn't where the cuts are happening. This is the real Boris. the one people didn't think they were voting for
What do you speak for chuck liddell now Outandabout ?

I asked the question because lets be honest here the firemen are interested in their jobs, yes they are concerned for the community they serve, but its their living that's their end game.

Most unions have screwed the golden goose and the hard facts of life are coming home to roost now.

Sorry if thats a fact you find hard to swallow, hard luck.

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Rev. Sue Scottley says...
2:20pm Fri 2 Nov 12

I am appalled by this "editorial" of poorly written tripe which is blatantly just trying to wind people up. I've seen better arguments and more solid cases in the comment thread wars between bickering regulars.

Firefighters do an astounding job, health and safety regulations may have made the job a little less toxic but it is still dangerous work that requires balls of steel.

Firefighter salaries for trainees start at around the same level as my day job - and I can tell you that although my job is sometimes heartwrenching, exhausting and stressful, it's a walk in the park compared to what firefighters do.

I'm sure there are jobs that compare in stress, trauma and bravery required to firefighting but yellow journalism isn't one of them.

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Outandabout says...
2:46pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Guess who ;) AGAIN ! wrote:
Outandabout wrote:
Guess who ;) AGAIN ! wrote:
chuck liddell are you the Union mouthpiece ?

I'm just asking the question.
You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who defends a service is a union spokesperson. There are senior officers in the London brigade who will strike next time because thes propsals are a cut too far. This is YOUR money, your 6p a day or whatever it is. bear in mind your money went on a project that is hardly used and cost ratepayers £36 million for a service that wasn't needed, serves no purpose and is hardly used. I'm talkign about the cable car across the Thames. Boris has done lots of little spendy things like this over the last couple of years. 'A Risk' = 6 minutes. if your home or workplace is an an A risk area (heavily populated or industrialised) then your fire enghine will arrive within 6 minutes, whether at 3am or 3pm. That is OK provided they are not on another call. So if Woolwich closes and your fire is in say a flat or house in Woolwich BUT Plumstead is already on a call you will be waiting for Erith to attend. People will die but not enough for it to lead to a reversal of cuts because not enough will die. It is an acceptable risk and an acceptable loss. This is what we have Boris to thank for. Statistically fires occur in the less well off areas. That isn't where the cuts are happening. This is the real Boris. the one people didn't think they were voting for
What do you speak for chuck liddell now Outandabout ?

I asked the question because lets be honest here the firemen are interested in their jobs, yes they are concerned for the community they serve, but its their living that's their end game.

Most unions have screwed the golden goose and the hard facts of life are coming home to roost now.

Sorry if thats a fact you find hard to swallow, hard luck.
I was answering you in an open forum, it’s how this works. 'lets be honest here'? everyone has a vested interest in their own job but fire cover affects everyone. It might actually not affect London fire-fighters who live out of London but a cut in fire cover means safety is affected. This happened in 1991 when the London Brigade faced Health and safety sanctions following the deaths of Terry Hunt and David Stokoe in a warehouse in Bow. The cause of the deaths was said to be the slashing of the training budget – hence the near presecutions by the Health and Safety Executive. But you wouldn’t know that because you have somewhere some facts about ALL unions. ‘facts’ you gleaned from someone unbeknown to anyone else. I don’t find facts hard to swallow. What sticks in my throat is people like you drudging out some tripe and packaging it as facts with nothing at all to back it up. If I want to comment by the way, I will.

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screw_your_loaf says...
4:21pm Fri 2 Nov 12

This editorial is so factually incorrect, only to be over shadowed by the utter dog **** written in response!
Second jobs big deal, I would have thought this puts them into the high tax bracket, and that's a bad or greedy thing? Sleeping on night duty, when the job permits them too, otherwise out helping joe public ( that's what they are paid for!!)
This debate should not be an attack on the individual's, but should be addressing the fact that the cuts will cost lifes, may be someone that has abused of this thread!
Those doubters should have a look on you tube fore a " domestic house fire or dwelling fire" see how quickly it developes and spreads, time it, then ask yourself how long would you be prepared to wait for a fire engine, and then would you like to go in crawl around in the hope that you got there in time to save the poor soul trapped inside.
Let's return see what sort of editorial is written next year when the cut are done, just a final note, the cuts equate to a quarter of the fire stations to close

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
4:28pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
Guess who ;) AGAIN ! wrote:
Outandabout wrote:
Guess who ;) AGAIN ! wrote:
chuck liddell are you the Union mouthpiece ?

I'm just asking the question.
You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who defends a service is a union spokesperson. There are senior officers in the London brigade who will strike next time because thes propsals are a cut too far. This is YOUR money, your 6p a day or whatever it is. bear in mind your money went on a project that is hardly used and cost ratepayers £36 million for a service that wasn't needed, serves no purpose and is hardly used. I'm talkign about the cable car across the Thames. Boris has done lots of little spendy things like this over the last couple of years. 'A Risk' = 6 minutes. if your home or workplace is an an A risk area (heavily populated or industrialised) then your fire enghine will arrive within 6 minutes, whether at 3am or 3pm. That is OK provided they are not on another call. So if Woolwich closes and your fire is in say a flat or house in Woolwich BUT Plumstead is already on a call you will be waiting for Erith to attend. People will die but not enough for it to lead to a reversal of cuts because not enough will die. It is an acceptable risk and an acceptable loss. This is what we have Boris to thank for. Statistically fires occur in the less well off areas. That isn't where the cuts are happening. This is the real Boris. the one people didn't think they were voting for
What do you speak for chuck liddell now Outandabout ?

I asked the question because lets be honest here the firemen are interested in their jobs, yes they are concerned for the community they serve, but its their living that's their end game.

Most unions have screwed the golden goose and the hard facts of life are coming home to roost now.

Sorry if thats a fact you find hard to swallow, hard luck.
I was answering you in an open forum, it’s how this works. 'lets be honest here'? everyone has a vested interest in their own job but fire cover affects everyone. It might actually not affect London fire-fighters who live out of London but a cut in fire cover means safety is affected. This happened in 1991 when the London Brigade faced Health and safety sanctions following the deaths of Terry Hunt and David Stokoe in a warehouse in Bow. The cause of the deaths was said to be the slashing of the training budget – hence the near presecutions by the Health and Safety Executive. But you wouldn’t know that because you have somewhere some facts about ALL unions. ‘facts’ you gleaned from someone unbeknown to anyone else. I don’t find facts hard to swallow. What sticks in my throat is people like you drudging out some tripe and packaging it as facts with nothing at all to back it up. If I want to comment by the way, I will.
"If I want to comment by the way, I will.”


ditto !

So how much are you prepared to pay extra in your taxes for keeping an outdated fire service, or what do you propose to cut elsewhere to pay ?

Something has to give, be realistic instead of some socialist/union dreamer.

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majorwally says...
7:21pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Reader's Digest Trust Poll 2012 Professions

1. Paramedics
2. Firefighters
3. Rescue volunteers
4. Nurses
5. Pilots
6. Doctors
7. Pharmacists
7. Veterinarians
9. Armed Forces personnel
10. Farmers
11. Police
12. Scientists
12. Teachers
14. Dentists

Says it all really.
In times of emergency will you call for the fire service or an editor of a lowly newspaper? No, I can't see "editors" on that list,lol

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majorwally says...
7:26pm Fri 2 Nov 12

And by the way, your fire service costs about £1 per week.
The same as your weekly lottery ticket

Your council tax alone is more than £150 per month (£37.50 per week)

Before you comment, get the facts!,

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md5037 says...
8:01pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Just to give you the numbers

A band D house in Bexley in 2011/12 paid the fire service £52.20 for the year.

The same band D house in 2012/13 will pay the fire service £39.54 for the year so 76p a week.

So give your insurance company a phone ask them for 24/365 cover with a response in under 6mins, to cover fires and accidents at home and at work, cover every journey you take from the bus trip to the shop, family in the car, right up to the airport.
Any other accident you may have from flooding, terrorist attacks, the stuck in lifts and all the other toot that society thinks we are there to solve for them. None of that covers all the preventative work we do, give away smoke alarms educate kids. Speak to all sorts of groups, ensure your workplaces are safe for you.

I will bet you 76p your insurance firm will ask for a lot more. So the question is what are you willing to do to save your money in the long term and maybe just maybe your life?

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
8:01pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Reader's Digest Trust Poll 2012 Professions........R
OFL !!

Very trusted of course, the Readers Digest. LOL


majorwally....say no more WALLY.

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chuck liddell says...
8:49pm Fri 2 Nov 12

@ Guesswho, no i am not a union mouthpiece, i am just stating the truth. Who do you honestly think will suffer when we have station closures??.... the public. Fact. In my view, the government are cutting the emergency services far too aggressively. And when something goes wrong, they either get the blame or it all gets covered up and never mentioned at all.

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Methodman says...
9:17pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Guess who says the fire service is outdated and seemingly bad value at 76pence per household per week.
Londons fire service is a world class fire service,it would not be stretching the truth to claim it is the best in the world.
Compare London with a similar sized city like NY.
Both serve populations of around 8million over the same size area.
London has 5500 firefighters to New Yorks 10100 firefighters(they also have 3000 paramedics in addition to this).
London has lower figures of fire deaths and an annual budget of £440 million.
NY has a budget of around £1.1 billion.
This Country likes to moan about having poor public services and yet here we have a World class service performing at a fraction of what comparable services perform abroad and people want to dismantle it.
These cuts are a direct result of Politicaly driven dogma.
Dave Cameron stated there would be no cuts to front line services just one week before the general election.
No surprise to find the Tories reneging on another election pledge.

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charity begins at home says...
9:04am Sat 3 Nov 12

Dear ed,
there worth every penny!!!!!!! and if you dont know the reasons why then you shouldn't be in the job that your doing...............
....................
........

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
11:05am Sat 3 Nov 12

So all you firemen are telling us the tax payers there's not one single penny we can save, not a single thing thats can be done other than leave things as they are with the fireservice ?

Where are the cuts and saving we all agree need to made going to come from, the police, the ambulance service, nurses, doctors, hospitals, council workers, where ? I don't want to keep paying more and more taxes, I pay enough. Enough is enough, change or get out, there's plenty will do your job FACT !!

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goldenbroomboy says...
11:15am Sat 3 Nov 12

Methodman wrote:
Guess who says the fire service is outdated and seemingly bad value at 76pence per household per week. Londons fire service is a world class fire service,it would not be stretching the truth to claim it is the best in the world. Compare London with a similar sized city like NY. Both serve populations of around 8million over the same size area. London has 5500 firefighters to New Yorks 10100 firefighters(they also have 3000 paramedics in addition to this). London has lower figures of fire deaths and an annual budget of £440 million. NY has a budget of around £1.1 billion. This Country likes to moan about having poor public services and yet here we have a World class service performing at a fraction of what comparable services perform abroad and people want to dismantle it. These cuts are a direct result of Politicaly driven dogma. Dave Cameron stated there would be no cuts to front line services just one week before the general election. No surprise to find the Tories reneging on another election pledge.
Not a good comparison.

Whilst the Greater London Urban Area in size and & area almost rivals the New York Metropolitan Area, the London Fire Brigade is responsible only for the Greater London (political)Region, a population of under eight million compared to almost thirteen million. If you include the figures from the various Fire Brigades outside Greater London which are responsible for the remainder of the Greater London Urban Area, then the combined operations do then pretty much match that of New York.

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md5037 says...
3:28pm Sat 3 Nov 12

Guess who,

I will answer your points, yes there was savings and over the previous 2 years the LFB saved 50 million cutting back waste and cutting backroom functions.

For once there was forward planning and the LFB management must be praised for having the vision to save knowing the cuts were coming.

The problem was that once Boris spotted the reserve he asked is pal Brian, his conservative pal who was our leader at the time, to give him the cash as he needed it to give to the Met to keep an election promise about front line officers.

So the LFB saw the writing on the wall and budgeted for it for it all to be taken away, so in real terms they have had to find 110 million from a budget of 450m.

As to paying more tax if you scroll back a few comments i have given the typical band D house and you will save £12 this year. So no more tax for you. So instead of paying what you used to for the service the public deserve, you will pay £12 pound less but they will transfer £10 of that to pay for the Olympics. But at least we will have the joy of the Olympics everyday and hour of the next year. Oh no i forgot it was only on for 4 weeks but we are still paying, a deal if ever there was one.

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chuck liddell says...
3:46pm Sat 3 Nov 12

@Guesswho we are not saying we want to leave the job we love, we are simply saying that if the cuts are too deep they will affect you, the public, a great deal more. Not just the fire service, but across all emergency services. If you're happy to wait longer for the LAS, police or fire brigade to arrive then that's your choice. Albeit, a very silly one F A C T.

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
4:18pm Sat 3 Nov 12

We all have to live within a budget, including the fire service. FACT.

You say you love your job, well get on with it. All jobs have changed, FACT.

Leave the financial and logistics experts to do their job and you do yours. If you were all experts in their fields you would not be firemen now would you. FACT

You know where to lay the blame for all the countries debt ..LABOUR, good old Tony and Gordon. FACT !!

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md5037 says...
5:55pm Sat 3 Nov 12

Guess who, your right with all the above points.

We are living within the budget we even saved for it for 2 years and made some tough choices, but as i have stated the money was taken from us.

The job has changed massively 15 years ago we had 7500 frontline now its down to 5000/5500. In that time we have reduced fire deaths and still the public hasnt noticed a drop in service. They now want another 850 it is a step to far.

If you really believe point 3 then more fool you. Its that crazy that they made a saying for it "the cost of everything and the value of nothing" Maybe they should listen to people who do the job, if they did they could have saved a few 100million on firecontrol, google it.

Who cares who got us there and to play devils advocate it was the banks who spent the money.

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
8:59pm Sat 3 Nov 12

"They now want another 850 it is a step to far." So you say.

That's what you all said when it was cut from 7500. I'm sure if you work together an amicable compromise will be reached.

The banks spent the money....mmm interesting. Not 12 years of Liebours give away culture ?

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bustedflush says...
11:21pm Sat 3 Nov 12

the fire brigade is not for firefighters,they are just doing a job.it is irrelevent to talk about the dangers the fact is we all want adequate cover.
from what I have read about LFB it would seem that cuts have been happening over a number of years.
if this can be done without affecting the service provided all well and good.
as soon as it reduces the service to below the service standards setr by the politicians and senior management then we have to worry imho.
cutting to the bone may be acceptable but cutting into the bone as it seems is being proposed could have the potential to endanger life.
i would hate to see in the press in years to come everyone blaming the other because someone has died as a consequence of these cuts.that is a human life.please get real and stop blaming the staff.
btw I am appalled at this atrocious journalism.my old P{a founded the precursor tot this rag and would be turning in his grave as a journo if he hadn't have been cremated.it may have been intended to incite a response on this blog but unfortunately the majority of readers will notg be reading this.

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bustedflush says...
11:22pm Sat 3 Nov 12

the fire brigade is not for firefighters,they are just doing a job.it is irrelevent to talk about the dangers the fact is we all want adequate cover.
from what I have read about LFB it would seem that cuts have been happening over a number of years.
if this can be done without affecting the service provided all well and good.
as soon as it reduces the service to below the service standards setr by the politicians and senior management then we have to worry imho.
cutting to the bone may be acceptable but cutting into the bone as it seems is being proposed could have the potential to endanger life.
i would hate to see in the press in years to come everyone blaming the other because someone has died as a consequence of these cuts.that is a human life.please get real and stop blaming the staff.
btw I am appalled at this atrocious journalism.my old P{a founded the precursor tot this rag and would be turning in his grave as a journo if he hadn't have been cremated.it may have been intended to incite a response on this blog but unfortunately the majority of readers will notg be reading this.

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
11:45pm Sat 3 Nov 12

bustedflush are you p1ssed or what ?

Go to bed FFS.

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bustedflush says...
12:06am Sun 4 Nov 12

p1ssed off with idiots

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md5037 says...
12:11am Sun 4 Nov 12

When did we say cutting from 7500 to 5500 was a cut to far?

You might like the impression that the LFB/FBU are some left wing group of loonies but the vast majority are realist. Since 2003, a national dispute on pay. London have tried to protect a service from being driven to the ground. The last piece of IA was caused by a management team that after not getting their way issued termination notices to force people into signing up, a nice modern management tool.

The number of FFs has steadily dropped through the last 9 years the FBU hasnt fought any battles over natural wastage and we have seen an appliance manned by 5 now down to 4, and loads of other small but wearing cuts.

Now we are seeing further massive reductions, and do you want to know the scary truth all 17 stations being cut only save 30 million so next year they will be back for another 15-17 to save the other 30 million. So 113 stations will soon be 83ish, worried yet well you should be.

Hope you did google firecontrol and seen the massive waste on a project the FBU opposed from the start, just a fraction of that money would fund most of the fire services in the whole country for a while. Before you blame that on Labour as well, and they do take a lot of the blame, the Conservatives supported it all the way.

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
1:04am Sun 4 Nov 12

Well bustedflush when you sober up and get your arse out of ya pit in the morning here's some capital letters for you to use...
AAAA
BBBB
CCCC etc

get the idea.

One othe thing, why do you read ( or do you just look at the photos ) this rag as you call it ?

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gunner1740 says...
11:09am Sun 4 Nov 12

What a ridiculous, inflammatory article to write in what is seen as a local newspaper !! I was under the impression a local newspaper would have community cohesion as a core value ? Why publish this scaving drivel attacking your local firefighters ? The editor should be ashamed of himself and resign and perhaps apply for a job at " The Sun " !!
Andrew Parks you should be ashamed !!

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chuck liddell says...
2:37pm Sun 4 Nov 12

We do work within a budget and always have done. The budget, like many others, is getting a great deal tighter, hence the cuts, which will eventually affect you, the public. Fact.

We do get on with our jobs, day and night, thank you. It was this editor's article which brought about this debate. Fact.

We don't get involved with the financial side of things as this is all down to policitians and very senior officers, but considering it affects our jobs and lives, we are entitled to an opinion on this. Fact.

And yes, I do agree that labour had a large give away culture which got us in a financial pickle and it's good that those days are over. However,
My personal opinion is that Cameron and co. are just cutting back a bit too much, too quickly. Not fact!

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DaveBFire says...
2:41pm Sun 4 Nov 12

As a senior officer in the fire service I must say this even tops the tabloid rags for attention seeking reporting. Terrible piece of journalism with no facts just some hidden agenda either political or personal.
Why would a decent local newspaper run an article like this in the light of possible cuts to fire stations? Im too busy to address all the editors remarks I will just say they are all ill informed and irrelevant.

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Guess who ;) AGAIN ! says...
3:22pm Sun 4 Nov 12

Just a question for some of you fire guys, whatever happened with some of you being trained in the paramedic roll ?

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md5037 says...
4:30pm Sun 4 Nov 12

It was a hair brained scheme that was soon kicked into touch, by both the LAS, LFB and the unions because in reality it might sound great but cant be delivered in the real world.

The amount of time needed to train to be a paramedic, and continual training, would mean there would be no need for fire training and the same the opposite way. Hence why they are 2 separate jobs.

And before you jump in they do it in america, they dont, In cities the fire service owns the ambulance service so technically they are employed by the fire service but they dont put out fires they are paramedics and a FF may drive the ambulance but they are not paramedics.

In the sticks they may co-respond, a bit more advanced training but still no where near a paramedic. Just like some county brigades here do. I forgot there is another thing we modernized into with no extra pay, we really are reactionary Luddites.

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Locked and Loaded says...
5:20pm Sun 4 Nov 12

Sorry md5037 they do it in the States. I live in Florida and have a fireman friend ( part time as well ) and he is doing para medic training now.Yes its a lengthy training as you can imagine. The trained para medics are based in the same station too. It saves on costs !!

Report this post »

Marty1979 says...
7:04am Mon 5 Nov 12

goldenbroomboy wrote:
Methodman wrote:
Guess who says the fire service is outdated and seemingly bad value at 76pence per household per week. Londons fire service is a world class fire service,it would not be stretching the truth to claim it is the best in the world. Compare London with a similar sized city like NY. Both serve populations of around 8million over the same size area. London has 5500 firefighters to New Yorks 10100 firefighters(they also have 3000 paramedics in addition to this). London has lower figures of fire deaths and an annual budget of £440 million. NY has a budget of around £1.1 billion. This Country likes to moan about having poor public services and yet here we have a World class service performing at a fraction of what comparable services perform abroad and people want to dismantle it. These cuts are a direct result of Politicaly driven dogma. Dave Cameron stated there would be no cuts to front line services just one week before the general election. No surprise to find the Tories reneging on another election pledge.
Not a good comparison.

Whilst the Greater London Urban Area in size and & area almost rivals the New York Metropolitan Area, the London Fire Brigade is responsible only for the Greater London (political)Region, a population of under eight million compared to almost thirteen million. If you include the figures from the various Fire Brigades outside Greater London which are responsible for the remainder of the Greater London Urban Area, then the combined operations do then pretty much match that of New York.
But is the New York fire service facing similar cuts?

Report this post »

realworldff says...
9:13am Mon 5 Nov 12

I am a 20 year firefighter and I agree with some of the editors points..

Yes, we are ordinary people, although we have never claimed to be any thing else.

Yes, the public perception of us has changed, mainly due to media stories like this.

Yes the strike he mentions was to bring our wages back in line, because they had slipped 30% behind.

Yes, we rest in between fires – as soldiers rest in between battle.

However, since when do we accept that our politicians are the experts?
All industrial action since the one he mentions have been to keep fire stations open and fire engines on the road.

We are genuinely concerned for public safety. We are the public, and we now face the battle to keep fire stations open, whilst saving £65 million.

Yes, Andrew, you and your other media associates have managed to lower the public’s perception of us. Consequently, I personally won't be taking action, attending marches or collecting petition signatures.
Already our attendance times are longer. Let's see what happens after the next cuts. Hopefully Andrew - you won't need our help.

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Outandabout says...
9:53am Mon 5 Nov 12

You know what. I couldn't care less about the comments here. If people want their fire service cut then go ahead and write to Boris supporting it. Tell them you want to live in the real world, or a world where the brigade might reach you in time, if you are lucky. Ever asked yourself why the huge loss of life in large fires doesn't happen here? It isn't just because of legislation (fought for by the FBU) on foam furnishing or building regulations, it is because we have good fire cover. Like I said I don't care. I will just wait for the corpses to pile up because the 6 minute attendance couldn't be met. Lets not forget those who might be trapped waiting to be freed from their car, or the people in flats left waiting because being stuck in a lift isn't actually the remit of the fire brigade and so they remove it from the list of calls they will make. Then there will be work place closures along with jobs because the brigade couldn't physically attend in good time as they were dealing with other calls. Then there are home and commercial insurance rises to be paid for because a slower attendance means more damage and a larger claim. Cutting a fire brigade because we have reduced deaths and damage is the same as not taking your medication for say diabetes because you haven’t had a problem while taking it so why should you continue. It is about prevention, that is what you pay for. The same with soldiers on duty in the UK or Police or staff at an A&E, they might not be working but they are there ready and available.

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
11:58am Mon 5 Nov 12

"You know what. I couldn't care less about the comments here"

yawn yawn yawn yawn. That's why you keep posting all over every related story.

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Outandabout says...
12:09pm Mon 5 Nov 12

rarecockneyguvnor wrote:
"You know what. I couldn't care less about the comments here"

yawn yawn yawn yawn. That's why you keep posting all over every related story.
No idea why you bother with such invaluable contributions. Surely you have a chat room somewhere for such wonderful insights into your world, dim that it is?

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
12:21pm Mon 5 Nov 12

We know you are a wanna be fireman.

Is it the image thing, are you bored in a dead end job ?

Run along now, go buy a model fire engine and make the siren noise there's a good lad.

Have you thought about becoming a PCSO, it could be so you.

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Outandabout says...
12:37pm Mon 5 Nov 12

I'm impressed, whole sentences and more than one. You are coming along. I'll decline the offer. I did 20 years. Nothing dead end about running your own business either. It must be hard reading opinions better informed than yours and waiting for Jeremy Kyle to start for that days fix of opinion. Nothing at all rare about you. All too steroptypically predicatable. The Adult Ed teacher or your support worker can explain any of this for ya.

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STREBOR says...
3:47pm Mon 5 Nov 12

I suggest you stop getting your press officers contacting stations by phone from now on, and contact the Lfb press office. You are not welcome anymore.

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
5:05pm Mon 5 Nov 12

So outandabout you did 20 years, where was that Broadmoor or Strangeways ?

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Outandabout says...
5:46pm Mon 5 Nov 12

rarecockneyguvnor wrote:
So outandabout you did 20 years, where was that Broadmoor or Strangeways ?
Tut tut. The best response you could muster? Back to single sentences againI see, best rack up the meds and wrap that silver paper around your bonce to keep the aliens away.

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Outandabout says...
5:50pm Mon 5 Nov 12

STREBOR wrote:
I suggest you stop getting your press officers contacting stations by phone from now on, and contact the Lfb press office. You are not welcome anymore.
Well said. Local rags were never off the phone for a story with an 'angle' that made it newsworthy. When a colleague was killed there was never any national coverage, it was always seen as 'part of the job' unless they could find some angle of interest, as if a firefighter being killed on duty wasn't enough of a story.

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Lord Erastus Theobald Piggott says...
5:58pm Mon 5 Nov 12

STREBOR wrote:
I suggest you stop getting your press officers contacting stations by phone from now on, and contact the Lfb press office. You are not welcome anymore.
Why don't you simply call yourself ROBERTS?

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
6:31pm Mon 5 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
rarecockneyguvnor wrote:
So outandabout you did 20 years, where was that Broadmoor or Strangeways ?
Tut tut. The best response you could muster? Back to single sentences againI see, best rack up the meds and wrap that silver paper around your bonce to keep the aliens away.
Well Broadmoor or Strangeways ?

I think you are the one on meds plus a tin foil hat comarade( sic )/ brother.

"The working class can kiss my arse, Ive got the guvnors job at last"

(to the tune of The Red Flag )

I bet you like Billy Bragg too don't you. You're the Riff Raff type.

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Outandabout says...
4:51pm Tue 6 Nov 12

You really have this down to a fine art, bringing an intelligent debate right down to your level, well plummeting is more apt. At least throughout this rag you are a consistent monocell.

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rarecockneyguvnor says...
5:30pm Tue 6 Nov 12

Outandabout wrote:
You really have this down to a fine art, bringing an intelligent debate right down to your level, well plummeting is more apt. At least throughout this rag you are a consistent monocell.
"a consistent monocell", LOL , I like that from the person doing the name calling.

Never mind, lets pick another story to spar, this ones getting old now......ladies choice, over. ;)

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ulsterian says...
12:20pm Thu 8 Nov 12

cookster wrote:
How edgy. Littlejohn must be quaking in his boots.
Well done Mr Parkes for saying it like it is about time too.
I have had one work collegue and two of my good friends die in fires in their duties as firemen.
Thankyou for pointing out the futility of their gesture and putting some much needed perspective into matters.
I shall be pointing this out to the widows and children they left behind and remind them just how ordinary their husbands and fathers were.
It takes courage to make such salient points as you have and if you have a moment please do a similar comment on those soldiers who will have us believe that Afghanistan is some form of war zone.
Keep up the great work.

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spencered says...
1:03am Fri 9 Nov 12

I have been a firefighter in the London fire Brigade for just over 31 years.

The London Fire Brigade website has historically reported the number of bonfire night related incidents every November 5th. I have added links (see below) to the LFB websites latest incidents page for the 5th November 2010 and 2011. I am not surprised to see that there is no reference to this years bonfire night (you will need to click on the link on the LFB page saying 'Latest Incidents to view this November) This is just a very small example of the way statistics are manipulated albeit in this case by their exclusion, to mislead or deny the public the true picture. Its very simple, less firefighters, stations or fire engines will result in more loss of life to house fires.

http://www.london-fi
re.gov.uk/ArchiveNov
ember2010.asp

http://www.london-fi
re.gov.uk/ArchiveNov
ember2011.asp

These next two links are just food for thought.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=piofZLySs
Nc

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=t_eHBqVYa
8A&feature=fvwrel

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Chilcottkatie says...
9:54pm Sat 10 Nov 12

cookster wrote:
How edgy. Littlejohn must be quaking in his boots.
Well what a big man you are Andrew Parkes !
I ask you when was the last time you phoned your loved one 'just in case' ? I have had that exact phone call on several occasions.

The knowledge that my husband will on a DAILY basis risk his life for someone like yourself makes me go cold !

Would you run into a collapsing burning building while being attacked for a wage they still stands well below the London average,
Tell me what exactly do you earn Mr Parkes ?

You are right Mr Parkes my husband does have two additional jobs, SADLY he has no choice as in our society today we still struggle to pay our mortgage, pay our bills and support our children.
Our children who he rarely sees or puts to bed and will very often miss on there birthdays or Christmas.

TELL ME WHO WILL YOU EXPECT TO COME AND SAVE YOU IF YOUR HOUSE WAS ON FIRE ??????

MY HUSBAND !!!!

I wonder if you will publish my comment on your front page, I doubt that a pitiful pencil pusher has the courage !

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mikey_w_999 says...
6:48pm Mon 12 Nov 12

Reading this gave me shock in just how ridiculous and pointless (other than try and spread/stir vicious rumors) this write up really is:

Firefighters until this year (1.5%) have NOT had any pay rise for five years, not even to keep inline with inflation. They have NOT asked for a pay rise at all let alone 30%!

Firefighters often work second jobs yes, just like anyone else in the country can or a 3rd or 4th if need be. If more money is needed to pay mortgages and put food on the table then so be it.

Firefighters have a good pension yes but its only what they have signed up for and agreed in contract to. Anyone else would do the same if that was offered to them. But lets not forget they pay 11% of their salary towards it. Over £300 a month. They dont want more, just for what they signed up to. A contract should be worth its weight in gold.

Firefighters have stand down time and sleep at night yes. There isnt a huge amount that can be done throughout the night. 2am 4am etc. Taking into account working a 13.5 hour straight shift i think its understandable. What i ask is that when there is an EMERGENCY the firefighters that turn up are going to do their best possible to potentially save my kids (god forbid) if the difference is betweeen a few hours sleep/rest rather than 10hours plus of no sleep then so be it. This is lives we are talking about!

All who work within the emergency services still depend on them for when or if they have an emergency. This effects their family and friends alike.
I think everyone knows they are making cuts left right and center but what i feel you really have to keeo in mind is that seconds costs lives FACT.
Just make sure you Think before you believe all the **** that is printed in the paper and put on tv. There is always more to it!

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