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Cops wants firearms centre near Heathrow
The Met Police plans to build a £90million firearms training centre near Heathrow to handle increased demand for armed officers leading up to the 2012 Olympics.
The proposed training centre would feature a mock-up airport terminal and London Underground carriages and be used to boost the number of firearms officers needed to face the terror threat and extra security for the games.
Officials have also reportedly said a new centre is needed after the Met was found guilty last year of breaching health and safety laws in the mistaken shooting of Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell tube station in 2005.
Firearms officers in armed response vehicles attend about 1,000 calls a month in London.
8:14am Friday 7th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Croyboy on 9:39am Fri 7 Mar 08
All this firearms training, practise, and an increase in armed officers doesn't seem to ever get us very far, does it? Now we have the announced intention of spending ninety million quid of tax-payers' money on more of the same. What for?
[bold]Bang! Bang![/bold] ...Oops, sorry, guv.
Maybe the Met should concentrate on a smaller number of higher quality individuals - possibly specifically ex-military - in a quite separate branch, with different uniforms:
firearms always look out of place in the hands of what is an essentially civilian police force.
All this firearms training, practise, and an increase in armed officers doesn't seem to ever get us very far, does it? Now we have the announced intention of spending ninety million quid of tax-payers' money on more of the same. What for?
Bang! Bang! ...Oops, sorry, guv.
Maybe the Met should concentrate on a smaller number of higher quality individuals - possibly specifically ex-military - in a quite separate branch, with different uniforms:
firearms always look out of place in the hands of what is an essentially civilian police force.
Posted by: Adam on 11:41pm Fri 7 Mar 08
It never ceases to amaze me how much money Metropolitan Police have to burn. I guess 90 million probably about 6 months’ savings on Amex bill Apparently 2 million in cash withdrawals went out on that in a few weeks
It never ceases to amaze me how much money Metropolitan Police have to burn. I guess 90 million probably about 6 months’ savings on Amex bill Apparently 2 million in cash withdrawals went out on that in a few weeks
Posted by: Jock, London on 2:00am Sat 8 Mar 08
It never ceases to amaze me how many people bad mouth our police.
If the centre isn't built, I reckon these will be the same people who, if threatened with a firearm, will bleat on about poor response times, not enough officers on the beat, etc.
Hypocrites, the lot of them!!!
It never ceases to amaze me how many people bad mouth our police.
If the centre isn't built, I reckon these will be the same people who, if threatened with a firearm, will bleat on about poor response times, not enough officers on the beat, etc.
Hypocrites, the lot of them!!!
Posted by: Croyboy on 11:33am Sat 8 Mar 08
Jock, as with much else in the UK today, the of firearms use is being tackled from the wrong end: 90% of those who use them - including potential terrorists - shouldn't even [italic]be[/italic] in this country in the first place. I'm not bad-mouthing police officers so much as despising the people in Westminster supposedly charged with defending our borders, way of life, values, and territorial integrity.
Our police officers should never have been put in this position. After all, I don't remember our ever having had such problems before we were blessed with multiculturalism and "diversity".
Jock, as with much else in the UK today, the of firearms use is being tackled from the wrong end: 90% of those who use them - including potential terrorists - shouldn't even
be in this country in the first place. I'm not bad-mouthing police officers so much as despising the people in Westminster supposedly charged with defending our borders, way of life, values, and territorial integrity.
Our police officers should never have been put in this position. After all, I don't remember our ever having had such problems before we were blessed with multiculturalism and "diversity".
Posted by: Mike, Uxbridge on 11:52am Mon 10 Mar 08
Please can we try and stop a story descending into racial hate rants for once!
In reality the problem is the governments ideas of preventative measures. It seems that our all knowing leaders believe that the key to tackling gun crime is to get the gums off the streets before they can be used in crime. A sensible enough idea. But how do they go about this, by placing bans on replcia firearms, spouting nonsense that these are responsible for the majority of gun crime in the UK, where a gun is never fired.
I believe that the building of this new centre is a step in the right direction and the government need to review their policies and start making some series plans for stopping weapons use. Instead of causing pain and annoyance to those who are not criminals.
Please can we try and stop a story descending into racial hate rants for once!
In reality the problem is the governments ideas of preventative measures. It seems that our all knowing leaders believe that the key to tackling gun crime is to get the gums off the streets before they can be used in crime. A sensible enough idea. But how do they go about this, by placing bans on replcia firearms, spouting nonsense that these are responsible for the majority of gun crime in the UK, where a gun is never fired.
I believe that the building of this new centre is a step in the right direction and the government need to review their policies and start making some series plans for stopping weapons use. Instead of causing pain and annoyance to those who are not criminals.
Posted by: Croyboy on 9:03am Wed 12 Mar 08
Mike wrote: [quote]Please can we try and stop a story descending into racial hate rants for once![/quote]
To which "race" might you be referring, Mike? ...And what's "hate" got to do with anything?
BTW, I quite agree that "government need to review their policies"...on migrants/asylum-seek
ers/refugees. After all, how often do you here of an Englishman using a firearm in a crime?
Mike wrote:
Please can we try and stop a story descending into racial hate rants for once!
To which "race" might you be referring, Mike? ...And what's "hate" got to do with anything?
BTW, I quite agree that "government need to review their policies"...on migrants/asylum-seek
ers/refugees. After all, how often do you here of an Englishman using a firearm in a crime?
Posted by: Mike, Uxbridge on 12:14pm Wed 12 Mar 08
I wasn't reffering to any race in particular as there was no need and I am not discussing race here. I think you're reading a little too deeply into my comment and have taken it far too personally. It just seems every topic on here turns into a racial debate whether it has anything t do with race or not and this one doesnt! As soon as someone starts the race debate you get all the racists idiots come and ruin it. Anyway such a topic is not needed here. Yes I am with you that policies do need to be changed and open borders perhaps revoked but that has very little to do with firearms. Which is the subject of this article.
I wasn't reffering to any race in particular as there was no need and I am not discussing race here. I think you're reading a little too deeply into my comment and have taken it far too personally. It just seems every topic on here turns into a racial debate whether it has anything t do with race or not and this one doesnt! As soon as someone starts the race debate you get all the racists idiots come and ruin it. Anyway such a topic is not needed here. Yes I am with you that policies do need to be changed and open borders perhaps revoked but that has very little to do with firearms. Which is the subject of this article.
Posted by: Croyboy on 9:44am Thu 13 Mar 08
My point is, Mike, that the person who brought up the subject of race was [italic]you.[/italic]
Mike wrote: [quote]I am with you that policies do need to be changed and open borders perhaps revoked but that has very little to do with firearms.[/quote]
The matter of who is permitted to enter and live in this country [italic]does[/italic] have [italic]everything[/italic] "to do with firearms", as even a cursory glance at the news will show you that the great majority of criminals using firearms in the UK are of alien origin.
My point is, Mike, that the person who brought up the subject of race was
you.
Mike wrote:
I am with you that policies do need to be changed and open borders perhaps revoked but that has very little to do with firearms.
The matter of who is permitted to enter and live in this country
does have
everything "to do with firearms", as even a cursory glance at the news will show you that the great majority of criminals using firearms in the UK are of alien origin.
Posted by: Mike, Uxbridge on 11:17am Thu 13 Mar 08
Actually you brought up the race issue with your comments on multiculturalism. And as for news, I think you need to take heed of the old saying, don;t believe everything you read.
Actually you brought up the race issue with your comments on multiculturalism. And as for news, I think you need to take heed of the old saying, don;t believe everything you read.
Posted by: Croyboy on 9:24am Fri 14 Mar 08
Mike wrote: [quote]Actually you brought up the race issue with your comments on multiculturalism.[/quote]
Yes, I commented on multiculturalism; no, I didn't comment on race - you did. Thus, when I responded to your post with [quote]To which "race" might you be referring...?[/quote] - I put the word in inverted commas, because [italic]I[/italic] was quoting [italic]you[/italic].
As for not believing everything one reads in the news, I assuredly don't: I seek confirmation or support from other sources - in this case my own eyes, ears, and experience around Croydon.
Mike wrote:
Actually you brought up the race issue with your comments on multiculturalism.
Yes, I commented on multiculturalism; no, I didn't comment on race - you did. Thus, when I responded to your post with
To which "race" might you be referring...?
- I put the word in inverted commas, because
I was quoting
you.
As for not believing everything one reads in the news, I assuredly don't: I seek confirmation or support from other sources - in this case my own eyes, ears, and experience around Croydon.
Posted by: Mike, Uxbridge on 11:43am Fri 14 Mar 08
Do you know what, I realy don't care. I used the word "race" first, but your original post was purely to do with people from outside of Britain (therefore different races) who you believe should not be here.
As for your experiences in Crydon, thats one area, thats not exactly a lot of support to go on. If i cared that much, I would have a word with some mates of mine in CO19 and see who they have to deal with mostly.
My only concern was to stop another topic falling into debate about race, culture, whatever you want to call it. Especially when the topic of this report is nothing to do with it.
Do you know what, I realy don't care. I used the word "race" first, but your original post was purely to do with people from outside of Britain (therefore different races) who you believe should not be here.
As for your experiences in Crydon, thats one area, thats not exactly a lot of support to go on. If i cared that much, I would have a word with some mates of mine in CO19 and see who they have to deal with mostly.
My only concern was to stop another topic falling into debate about race, culture, whatever you want to call it. Especially when the topic of this report is nothing to do with it.
Posted by: Croyboy on 2:22pm Fri 14 Mar 08
Mike wrote: [quote]your original post was purely to do with people from outside of Britain (therefore different races)...[/quote]
Nonsensical: "people from outside of Britain" are automatically of a different race? Pray tell me: how does George Bush's "race" differ from mine? ...Or that of Bill Gates. Or of any American, Canadian, South African, Australian, or New Zealander of Anglo-Saxon-Celtic descent? ...Or 90% of the people in northern Europe, for that matter?
I await the explanation of Mike's New Racial Classification System with much interest.
And I hope you do indeed "have a word with some mates" of yours in CO19. In particular, ask any who are or who have been attached to Operation Trident.
Apologies will be accepted through this column.
Mike wrote:
your original post was purely to do with people from outside of Britain (therefore different races)...
Nonsensical: "people from outside of Britain" are automatically of a different race? Pray tell me: how does George Bush's "race" differ from mine? ...Or that of Bill Gates. Or of any American, Canadian, South African, Australian, or New Zealander of Anglo-Saxon-Celtic descent? ...Or 90% of the people in northern Europe, for that matter?
I await the explanation of Mike's New Racial Classification System with much interest.
And I hope you do indeed "have a word with some mates" of yours in CO19. In particular, ask any who are or who have been attached to Operation Trident.
Apologies will be accepted through this column.
Posted by: Mike, Uxbridge on 2:33pm Fri 14 Mar 08
As I said before I no longer care realy. No that is not an admission of defeat but I am not getting drawn into an argument of semantics and pedentary.
As for opertaion Trident, many people from communities it was aimed at have never heard of it, had any interaction with it and have no idea of its purpose. So it isnt exactly a model to be looked upon. As for apologies, don't make me laugh.
As I said before I no longer care realy. No that is not an admission of defeat but I am not getting drawn into an argument of semantics and pedentary.
As for opertaion Trident, many people from communities it was aimed at have never heard of it, had any interaction with it and have no idea of its purpose. So it isnt exactly a model to be looked upon. As for apologies, don't make me laugh.
Posted by: Croyboy on 9:40am Sat 15 Mar 08
If you "longer care realy", why mention it in the first place?
...And treating "race" and "nationality" as synonyms is obviously wrong, and not "an argument" of semantics and pedantry: there's no argument about it!
[quote] As for opertaion Trident, many people from communities it was aimed at have never heard of it...[/quote]
The fact - if that is what it is - that many people from these "communities" (So coy! ...
What "communities" are those, Mike?) "have never heard of it" means little: I suspect they haven't heard of a lot of things!
If you "longer care realy", why mention it in the first place?
...And treating "race" and "nationality" as synonyms is obviously wrong, and not "an argument" of semantics and pedantry: there's no argument about it!
As for opertaion Trident, many people from communities it was aimed at have never heard of it...
The fact - if that is what it is - that many people from these "communities" (So coy! ...
What "communities" are those, Mike?) "have never heard of it" means little: I suspect they haven't heard of a lot of things!
Posted by: big steve, lewes on 2:15am Tue 18 Mar 08
Croyboy you are such a moron .
You blame immigrants or multiculturalism, for everything you deem to be a problem with this country, you harp on about how great life was before all these immigrants came and spoiled "your" country.
Also you need to learn the legal definition of the the word "racist" it covers a multitude of sins i.e discrimition on grounds of culture and nationality and not just race.
Mike hit the nail on the head with his first post when stating, idiots like you try to drag every comments section regarding any story into a racist attack, blaming anything and everything on as you put it "non indeginous" people
To quote Winston Churchill "Who do you think your kidding mr Hitler..... sry I mean croyboy, your thinly veiled racism may be invisible to persons with a mental age of under twelve, but the rest of us can see your comments for what they they are ....racist claptrap.
Croyboy you are such a moron .
You blame immigrants or multiculturalism, for everything you deem to be a problem with this country, you harp on about how great life was before all these immigrants came and spoiled "your" country.
Also you need to learn the legal definition of the the word "racist" it covers a multitude of sins i.e discrimition on grounds of culture and nationality and not just race.
Mike hit the nail on the head with his first post when stating, idiots like you try to drag every comments section regarding any story into a racist attack, blaming anything and everything on as you put it "non indeginous" people
To quote Winston Churchill "Who do you think your kidding mr Hitler..... sry I mean croyboy, your thinly veiled racism may be invisible to persons with a mental age of under twelve, but the rest of us can see your comments for what they they are ....racist claptrap.
Posted by: Croyboy on 8:45am Tue 18 Mar 08
Thank you, "big steve", for your thoughtful post.
You begin with the declaration that I'm "such a moron", seemingly because [quote]You blame immigrants or multiculturalism, for everything you deem to be a problem with this country...[/quote]
No. I certainly blame much of the unarguable deterioration in the quality of life on the flood of aliens we're required to host, but I [italic]don't[/italic] "blame immigrants or multiculturalism" for everything I - and many others - "deem to be a problem". If you've read what I've written here and elsewhere on this subject, you ought to understand that...being a strictly "non-moron" as you presumably are.
And [quote]you harp on about how great life was before all these immigrants came and spoiled "your" country[/quote]
Really? You appear to have the advantage of me: I can't recall ever having said that. Do you think you might be good enough to jog my memory? ...Or might this be another example of the reading-comprehensio
n problem you're prone to?
[quote]Also you need to learn the legal definition of the the word "racist" it covers a multitude of sins i.e discrimition on grounds of culture and nationality and not just race.[/quote]
As it happens I am aware of the (new) legal (as opposed to the OED) definition of "racism", but it is in fact absurd, as race and nationality/national origin are quite separate - as I've already illustrated on this thread, thus I'm sure the wording will be found to be faulty the first time it's robustly challenged in court. Don't forget, Zionism was equated with racism by the UN at one time, but now no longer is. (Strictly speaking it's "tribalism" - but that's what happens when one uses language imprecisely!)
[quote]To quote Winston Churchill "Who do you think your kidding mr Hitler...[/quote]
Glad you mentioned Hitler; it reminded me that both my grandfathers and my father were in the British regular army, and fought in WWI and WWII respectively - for what they were told was [bold]their[/bold] country.
Now, how would you characterise that, steve? ..."racist claptrap", perhaps?
Thank you, "big steve", for your thoughtful post.
You begin with the declaration that I'm "such a moron", seemingly because
You blame immigrants or multiculturalism, for everything you deem to be a problem with this country...
No. I certainly blame much of the unarguable deterioration in the quality of life on the flood of aliens we're required to host, but I
don't "blame immigrants or multiculturalism" for everything I - and many others - "deem to be a problem". If you've read what I've written here and elsewhere on this subject, you ought to understand that...being a strictly "non-moron" as you presumably are.
And
you harp on about how great life was before all these immigrants came and spoiled "your" country
Really? You appear to have the advantage of me: I can't recall ever having said that. Do you think you might be good enough to jog my memory? ...Or might this be another example of the reading-comprehensio
n problem you're prone to?
Also you need to learn the legal definition of the the word "racist" it covers a multitude of sins i.e discrimition on grounds of culture and nationality and not just race.
As it happens I am aware of the (new) legal (as opposed to the OED) definition of "racism", but it is in fact absurd, as race and nationality/national origin are quite separate - as I've already illustrated on this thread, thus I'm sure the wording will be found to be faulty the first time it's robustly challenged in court. Don't forget, Zionism was equated with racism by the UN at one time, but now no longer is. (Strictly speaking it's "tribalism" - but that's what happens when one uses language imprecisely!)
To quote Winston Churchill "Who do you think your kidding mr Hitler...
Glad you mentioned Hitler; it reminded me that both my grandfathers and my father were in the British regular army, and fought in WWI and WWII respectively - for what they were told was
their country.
Now, how would you characterise that, steve? ..."racist claptrap", perhaps?
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