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Replica guns seized from collector
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| Seized: the replica guns and ammunition |
Armed police swooped on the flat of a 54-year-old replica pistol collector in Battersea.
They seized 17 replica guns but police admit the man posed no threat to the community.
Wandsworth crime squad Inspector Matt Phelps said police had raided the flat about 10.20am on October 10 after a tip-off from the public.
"This action was taken to pro-actively reduce the threat of firearm incidents in the borough and to prevent any possible tragic consequences should they have made their way into the wrong hands," Insp Phelps said after the weapons had been handed over.
"Most imitation weapons are exact copies of the real thing and this places armed officers in the almost impossible position of having to make an instant judgment on whether a gun is real or not.
"I would like to thank the local residents who had the foresight to bring this collection to our attention, and the owner for his full co-operation."
Police said local residents had raised concerns that the man had a large number of replica firearms and ammunition on display in his home.
It turned out the 54-year-old had been collecting the gun memorabilia over 20 years and had built up an extensive collection.
Specialist CO19 firearms officers found 17 of the guns were exact replicas and could be converted to fire.
The Met said in a statement that "although there was no concern that the owner of the collection posed a threat himself, the firearms that had been identified by officers as susceptible to conversion were retained as a precautionary measure" and will be destroyed.
12:40pm Friday 19th October 2007
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CommentPosted by: Jim on 5:58am Sat 20 Oct 07
I don't understand... Is possession of the replicas actually illegal, or did the police just decide it's not a good idea and take this mans property?
There was no discussion of charging him, so I guessing it's the latter.
How does anyone tolerate this?
I don't understand... Is possession of the replicas actually illegal, or did the police just decide it's not a good idea and take this mans property?
There was no discussion of charging him, so I guessing it's the latter.
How does anyone tolerate this?
Posted by: Dennis, The American Colonies on 7:26am Sat 20 Oct 07
Just you wait! The next raid will be on the offices of This Is Local London for having a [italic]photograph[/italic] of replica firearms.
Just you wait! The next raid will be on the offices of This Is Local London for having a
photograph of replica firearms.
Posted by: M. O'Reilly, usa on 1:12pm Sat 20 Oct 07
This is why we kicked you out of our country-insane oppression sans logic. Maybe you can come back when he's 74 and bag another 20...
This is why we kicked you out of our country-insane oppression sans logic. Maybe you can come back when he's 74 and bag another 20...
Posted by: Peter on 5:30pm Sat 20 Oct 07
You poor sorry b@stards. What has happened to you? Your grandfathers ran an Empire, and here you all are cowering at plastic, fake, guns.
The only good aspect is that I've been able to buy three of the very fine Enfield rifles you are all suddenly scared of.
You poor sorry b@stards. What has happened to you? Your grandfathers ran an Empire, and here you all are cowering at plastic, fake, guns.
The only good aspect is that I've been able to buy three of the very fine Enfield rifles you are all suddenly scared of.
Posted by: yog-sothoth on 5:45pm Sat 20 Oct 07
It's hard to believe this is the same nation which stood alone to defy the might and malice of the Wehrmacht which had just taken all of Europe. Your forebears are turning over in their graves. You have become a nation of grovelers. When you become Dhimmis you will deserve it.
It's hard to believe this is the same nation which stood alone to defy the might and malice of the Wehrmacht which had just taken all of Europe. Your forebears are turning over in their graves. You have become a nation of grovelers. When you become Dhimmis you will deserve it.
Posted by: Steve, USA on 6:33pm Sat 20 Oct 07
You people are pathetic if you put up with this crap
You people are pathetic if you put up with this crap
Posted by: Greg Scott, New York on 6:47pm Sat 20 Oct 07
While your rights are being violated you do nothing. In 5 years your nation will cease to exist. You have placed your security in the hands of others what do you think the end result is? Civil war. Remember humanity did just fine with rock and clubs for tens of thousands of years if the government keeps pushing its all over.
While your rights are being violated you do nothing. In 5 years your nation will cease to exist. You have placed your security in the hands of others what do you think the end result is? Civil war. Remember humanity did just fine with rock and clubs for tens of thousands of years if the government keeps pushing its all over.
Posted by: Rob A., Standish, Maine, USA on 4:06am Sun 21 Oct 07
Winston Churchill would be so ashamed.
Winston Churchill would be so ashamed.
Posted by: Mopar on 2:32pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Wow!
Just wow.
Posted by: Terry on 3:50pm Sun 21 Oct 07
1984 has arrived - 23 years late but here never-the-less. The UK, where the police rely on informers to keep the subjects "safe", the police laud the dobbers and ubiquitous CCTV keeps a 'benevolent' eye on the serfs. The country that gave the world the notion of personal freedom is itself losing it in the name of safety.
1984 has arrived - 23 years late but here never-the-less. The UK, where the police rely on informers to keep the subjects "safe", the police laud the dobbers and ubiquitous CCTV keeps a 'benevolent' eye on the serfs. The country that gave the world the notion of personal freedom is itself losing it in the name of safety.
Posted by: Fred, townsville on 1:49am Mon 22 Oct 07
Sad isn't, replica toy guns, the police should have a look at them selves, remember the innocent fellow who was on the train shot because he looked suspicious, no one was charged.
Sad isn't, replica toy guns, the police should have a look at them selves, remember the innocent fellow who was on the train shot because he looked suspicious, no one was charged.
Posted by: Croyboy on 8:43am Mon 22 Oct 07
Great job, plods!
Now perhaps you can confiscate [italic]real[/italic] guns from [italic]real[/italic] criminals.
Oh, by the way: "Armed police swooped on the flat..."
Why armed? Were you going to shoot him seven times in the head if he resisted your taking his legally-held collection?
Great job, plods!
Now perhaps you can confiscate
real guns from
real criminals.
Oh, by the way: "Armed police swooped on the flat..."
Why armed? Were you going to shoot him seven times in the head if he resisted your taking his legally-held collection?
Posted by: Peter, Amsterdam on 9:53am Mon 22 Oct 07
Hey people, this is nothing.
Prepare yourselves cos the New World Order is coming to the UK soon.
Hey people, this is nothing.
Prepare yourselves cos the New World Order is coming to the UK soon.
Posted by: Chris in Florida on 9:56am Mon 22 Oct 07
When the Muslims take over your country then all your enemies will have AK47's. The people need to rise up now before it's too late. Shame to see such a powerful country turn into victims.
When the Muslims take over your country then all your enemies will have AK47's. The people need to rise up now before it's too late. Shame to see such a powerful country turn into victims.
Posted by: Jim, Australia on 10:00am Mon 22 Oct 07
You poor bloody Poms,
No wonder you all want to migrate to other countries. History will condemn the generation that allowed this to happen. To think that 60 years ago the Union Jack was a symbol of liberty from oppression in Europes darkest days. You people should be marching in the streets in protest or are you all too scared??
You poor bloody Poms,
No wonder you all want to migrate to other countries. History will condemn the generation that allowed this to happen. To think that 60 years ago the Union Jack was a symbol of liberty from oppression in Europes darkest days. You people should be marching in the streets in protest or are you all too scared??
Posted by: Great Britain, ENGLAND on 1:02pm Mon 22 Oct 07
American's offering opinions on the state of our country... Absolutely laughable..
American's offering opinions on the state of our country... Absolutely laughable..
Posted by: Rocketman, Indiana on 3:58pm Mon 22 Oct 07
Judging from the almost total lack of civil liberties in England nowadays it seems to me that a American style Libertarian Party is desperately needed.
Judging from the almost total lack of civil liberties in England nowadays it seems to me that a American style Libertarian Party is desperately needed.
Posted by: KZ, England on 4:02pm Mon 22 Oct 07
"lack of civil liberties in England.."
Abundant in the states are they? Shall we ask the Jena 6 that question?
"lack of civil liberties in England.."
Abundant in the states are they? Shall we ask the Jena 6 that question?
Posted by: Jason, California on 8:10pm Mon 22 Oct 07
Yes, the American style Libertarian Party is desperately needed in the USA too.
Is that supposed to disprove your need for it?
Yes, the American style Libertarian Party is desperately needed in the USA too.
Is that supposed to disprove your need for it?
Posted by: Alan, St Alburn on 9:27pm Mon 22 Oct 07
When I read this my hart goes out to all those who died for no reason in the world wars, both sides, this is what we fought against, other fought to keep, a state that decides you MIGHT be harmful and takes action. If this is the trend I hope I can use the same laws to have many drivers on our roads arrested and their cars confiscated and destroyed, as many of them are potential accidents waiting to happen and may potentially harm people.
How cry the beloved country
When I read this my hart goes out to all those who died for no reason in the world wars, both sides, this is what we fought against, other fought to keep, a state that decides you MIGHT be harmful and takes action. If this is the trend I hope I can use the same laws to have many drivers on our roads arrested and their cars confiscated and destroyed, as many of them are potential accidents waiting to happen and may potentially harm people.
How cry the beloved country
Posted by: Rudi, New Brunswick, Canada on 9:48pm Mon 22 Oct 07
I think I have seen this movie before, something about total government control and lack of civil liberties.
I think I have seen this movie before, something about total government control and lack of civil liberties.
Posted by: Charles F. on 11:19pm Mon 22 Oct 07
England has turned into a nation of sissies and wankers.
CCTV cameras, wogs as thick as fleas on a dogs ****, crime running rampant. But by God, you've still got television, so it's all ok with you.
England has turned into a nation of sissies and wankers.
CCTV cameras, wogs as thick as fleas on a dogs ****, crime running rampant. But by God, you've still got television, so it's all ok with you.
Posted by: Keith, Pennsylvania on 6:05am Tue 23 Oct 07
What happened to you Brits?! Both Sir Winston Churchill and Sir Bernard Montgomery, who were proud, brave, and honorable, must be crying above in Heaven after seeing that you folks have reduced yourselves to a bunch of cowards after all of these years. It's disgusting that you folks are now afraid of toy guns. Are you afraid of your own shadows as well? It's no wonder that the Muslims, especially the radicals, are having such an easy time taking over your country. Those radical Muslims won't need to fire a shot from their weapons when they can simply say "Boo!" and you'll run away from them and hide underneath your beds. You people today make the French look very brave.
First of all, you Brits need to get some common sense by getting rid of these stupid laws. Criminals don't obey laws in the first place. After that, you had better be brave, just like your proud ancestors, and take back your country if you still want it to be known as England and not Anglistan.
What happened to you Brits?! Both Sir Winston Churchill and Sir Bernard Montgomery, who were proud, brave, and honorable, must be crying above in Heaven after seeing that you folks have reduced yourselves to a bunch of cowards after all of these years. It's disgusting that you folks are now afraid of toy guns. Are you afraid of your own shadows as well? It's no wonder that the Muslims, especially the radicals, are having such an easy time taking over your country. Those radical Muslims won't need to fire a shot from their weapons when they can simply say "Boo!" and you'll run away from them and hide underneath your beds. You people today make the French look very brave.
First of all, you Brits need to get some common sense by getting rid of these stupid laws. Criminals don't obey laws in the first place. After that, you had better be brave, just like your proud ancestors, and take back your country if you still want it to be known as England and not Anglistan.
Posted by: Peter, Amsterdam on 7:58am Tue 23 Oct 07
Britain has become a DISGUSTING country! What more can I say.
You lot are the laughing stock of the world.
Britain has become a DISGUSTING country! What more can I say.
You lot are the laughing stock of the world.
Posted by: KZ, England on 9:50am Tue 23 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Jason[/bold] wrote:
Yes, the American style Libertarian Party is desperately needed in the USA too. Is that supposed to disprove your need for it?[/quote] No not at all, its suppose point out that people in glass houses should not be throwing stones..
Jason wrote:
Yes, the American style Libertarian Party is desperately needed in the USA too. Is that supposed to disprove your need for it?
No not at all, its suppose point out that people in glass houses should not be throwing stones..
Posted by: A Passer By, London on 10:01am Tue 23 Oct 07
The Police have done a good thing here. Unfortunately we live in a society where people take what others have got... These guns could be converted, people in the neighbourhood knew about them, so all it would take is for a gang to break in, take them and then convert them.. The results would have been a lot worse than they stand at the moment and then everyone would have been in uproar about how the police should have done something.
We can be called all names under the sun but it still stands that heaven forbid we should become like America in any way shape or form!!
The Police have done a good thing here. Unfortunately we live in a society where people take what others have got... These guns could be converted, people in the neighbourhood knew about them, so all it would take is for a gang to break in, take them and then convert them.. The results would have been a lot worse than they stand at the moment and then everyone would have been in uproar about how the police should have done something.
We can be called all names under the sun but it still stands that heaven forbid we should become like America in any way shape or form!!
Posted by: Steve, U.S.A. on 1:34pm Tue 23 Oct 07
[quote]American's offering opinions on the state of our country... Absolutely laughable..[/quote]
Armed Police taking toy guns from old man...Now that's absolutely laughable.
I didn't know you Brits were so scared of old men with toy guns. Now you are scared of Americans with snide comments.
I'm not really scared of anything you have to threaten me with, though. You don't even have so much as a toy gun to do it with.
American's offering opinions on the state of our country... Absolutely laughable..
Armed Police taking toy guns from old man...Now that's absolutely laughable.
I didn't know you Brits were so scared of old men with toy guns. Now you are scared of Americans with snide comments.
I'm not really scared of anything you have to threaten me with, though. You don't even have so much as a toy gun to do it with.
Posted by: george n, USA on 1:40pm Tue 23 Oct 07
"We can be called all names under the sun but it still stands that heaven forbid we should become like America in any way shape or form."
Yes, heaven forbid. You are giving everything away you (and many others) fought for for the last 200 years, and you are too blind to see it. Pathetic.
"We can be called all names under the sun but it still stands that heaven forbid we should become like America in any way shape or form."
Yes, heaven forbid. You are giving everything away you (and many others) fought for for the last 200 years, and you are too blind to see it. Pathetic.
Posted by: Great Britain, ENGLAND on 1:51pm Tue 23 Oct 07
Guns are illegal in this country, whether they take it away from an old man or not makes no difference whatsoever..
Who is scared of 'Americans with snide comments' certainly not me. Your comments do me no harm whatsoever… Although considering your answer to anything is to shoot it I probably should be..
"I'm not really scared of anything you have to threaten me with, though"
Now you see? That is where we differ, I don't feel the need to threaten anyone, I do not think I am bigger and better than I am…. We don't need guns, real or toy to prove ourselves.
Guns are illegal in this country, whether they take it away from an old man or not makes no difference whatsoever..
Who is scared of 'Americans with snide comments' certainly not me. Your comments do me no harm whatsoever… Although considering your answer to anything is to shoot it I probably should be..
"I'm not really scared of anything you have to threaten me with, though"
Now you see? That is where we differ, I don't feel the need to threaten anyone, I do not think I am bigger and better than I am…. We don't need guns, real or toy to prove ourselves.
Posted by: A Passer By, London on 1:56pm Tue 23 Oct 07
[quote][bold]george n[/bold] wrote:
"We can be called all names under the sun but it still stands that heaven forbid we should become like America in any way shape or form." Yes, heaven forbid. You are giving everything away you (and many others) fought for for the last 200 years, and you are too blind to see it. Pathetic. [/quote] What precisely are we giving away? "The right to bear arms?" That never existed in this country dear, we've never been that intent on violence..
Plus, I would rather give everything away than attempt to take what doesn't belong to me...
george n wrote:
"We can be called all names under the sun but it still stands that heaven forbid we should become like America in any way shape or form." Yes, heaven forbid. You are giving everything away you (and many others) fought for for the last 200 years, and you are too blind to see it. Pathetic.
What precisely are we giving away? "The right to bear arms?" That never existed in this country dear, we've never been that intent on violence..
Plus, I would rather give everything away than attempt to take what doesn't belong to me...
Posted by: L. L. Lucullus, St. Louis, MO (USA) on 2:30pm Tue 23 Oct 07
A Passer By writes "Plus, I would rather give everything away than attempt to take what doesn't belong to me..."
Are you seriously suggesting that the alternative to pacifism is thievery?
If you would not take the property of others without permission, good for you. I would not do so either. If you would permit another to take your property, by force, without resisting, I am sorry for you and sorrier for those who depend upon you. I choose to defend my property, my life, and what rights remain mine in our "enlightened" age. So did your countrymen, until quite recently.
[italic]Hic jacet Brittanius - Vir quondam atque futurus.[/italic]
A Passer By writes "Plus, I would rather give everything away than attempt to take what doesn't belong to me..."
Are you seriously suggesting that the alternative to pacifism is thievery?
If you would not take the property of others without permission, good for you. I would not do so either. If you would permit another to take your property, by force, without resisting, I am sorry for you and sorrier for those who depend upon you. I choose to defend my property, my life, and what rights remain mine in our "enlightened" age. So did your countrymen, until quite recently.
Hic jacet Brittanius - Vir quondam atque futurus.
Posted by: Collector, Canada on 2:52pm Tue 23 Oct 07
I just don't understand why armed police would raid the home of this person and seize a collection. For 20 years this individual was able to legally purchase (assumption) his collection. Then suddenly, arbitrarily this freedom is taken away from him. I have to hope this will never happen to me without cause. I have a similar collection, but I own no fakes. Truth is, regardless of what one ownes, you really can't fight the authorities. I will just have to hope Canada will respect my ownership and not become what it seems much of Europe has become in respect to firearms. I have to admit, that it seems unlikely I will die an old man with my guns still in my possession. It appears most governments have been steadily barring it's civillian populace from firearms ownership. It will probably only ever get worse for all of us.
I just don't understand why armed police would raid the home of this person and seize a collection. For 20 years this individual was able to legally purchase (assumption) his collection. Then suddenly, arbitrarily this freedom is taken away from him. I have to hope this will never happen to me without cause. I have a similar collection, but I own no fakes. Truth is, regardless of what one ownes, you really can't fight the authorities. I will just have to hope Canada will respect my ownership and not become what it seems much of Europe has become in respect to firearms. I have to admit, that it seems unlikely I will die an old man with my guns still in my possession. It appears most governments have been steadily barring it's civillian populace from firearms ownership. It will probably only ever get worse for all of us.
Posted by: Keith, USA on 3:02pm Tue 23 Oct 07
Here's a well-known quote:
"Those who wish to trade their liberty for security shall deserve neither."
Here's a well-known quote:
"Those who wish to trade their liberty for security shall deserve neither."
Posted by: A Passer By, London on 3:34pm Tue 23 Oct 07
L. L. Lucullus wrote:
"If you would permit another to take your property, by force, without resisting, I am sorry for you and sorrier for those who depend upon you. I choose to defend my property, my life, and what rights remain mine in our "enlightened" age. So did your countrymen, until quite recently."
Don't feel sorry for me LL... I did not once say that I would not defend myself or my property but you see, I realise that property and material things can be replaced... When you shoot someone's brains out that life cannot be replaced. If you wish for me to adopt the opinion that this would be acceptable over a car, phone, necklace, watch or whatever, then you are sadly mistaken and it is in fact yourself you should bestow your pity on...
"Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."
L. L. Lucullus wrote:
"If you would permit another to take your property, by force, without resisting, I am sorry for you and sorrier for those who depend upon you. I choose to defend my property, my life, and what rights remain mine in our "enlightened" age. So did your countrymen, until quite recently."
Don't feel sorry for me LL... I did not once say that I would not defend myself or my property but you see, I realise that property and material things can be replaced... When you shoot someone's brains out that life cannot be replaced. If you wish for me to adopt the opinion that this would be acceptable over a car, phone, necklace, watch or whatever, then you are sadly mistaken and it is in fact yourself you should bestow your pity on...
"Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."
Posted by: george n, usa on 3:44pm Tue 23 Oct 07
So your property is the property of anyone who wants it because it is not worth defending...how nice. Some of us have to work very hard for the things we have, and the life we have made for ourselves. Obviously not an issue for you. Common property for anyone "according to their needs.." Hmmm, where have I heard that before?
So your property is the property of anyone who wants it because it is not worth defending...how nice. Some of us have to work very hard for the things we have, and the life we have made for ourselves. Obviously not an issue for you. Common property for anyone "according to their needs.." Hmmm, where have I heard that before?
Posted by: george n, USA on 3:53pm Tue 23 Oct 07
No intent on violence!?!?!?! What do you call what you did to the indigenous populations of most of the countries when you were an Empire. Particularly India??? Or maybe several nations in Africa.?? Or maybe those pesky rebels in the colonies???
This whole thing is degrading onto a name calling contest.
The rights I am refering to are things like being secure in your own house from searches and seizures. Taking property away without due cause ("dangerous" toys), and the like.
The Brits helped my folks maintain their freedome when the Nazi's marched into my homeland in Greece. We still are in your debt. I just feel very badly that your society has come to this.
No intent on violence!?!?!?! What do you call what you did to the indigenous populations of most of the countries when you were an Empire. Particularly India??? Or maybe several nations in Africa.?? Or maybe those pesky rebels in the colonies???
This whole thing is degrading onto a name calling contest.
The rights I am refering to are things like being secure in your own house from searches and seizures. Taking property away without due cause ("dangerous" toys), and the like.
The Brits helped my folks maintain their freedome when the Nazi's marched into my homeland in Greece. We still are in your debt. I just feel very badly that your society has come to this.
Posted by: A Passer By, London on 4:35pm Tue 23 Oct 07
George, George, George, I too have to work hard for what I have... However, I still recognise that life is more important than objects regardless of how hard I've had to work to get them. I know what is a necessity in my life and what isn’t. It’s the adoption of certain attitudes that has lead the world to value things more than people, and very much to blame for the societies we ALL live in.
So George, how do you secure your house from ‘searches and seizures’ lets say twenty police storm your home, are you going to blow their brains out? If they confiscate your gun because there’s a chance it might be illegal, are you going to shoot them? You see, this is why our police are allowed to do such things, in order that we avoid such tragedies as those seen by countries where guns are legal and handed out like sweets.
I know its time to pack up and leave when I can go to a bank to open an account and be given a gun to boot!!
There are many reasons that our society has come to what it has, but please don’t think that American influence isn’t one of them…
'This whole thing is degrading onto a name calling contest.'
Look back over the comments, the name calling started long before I got involved and all because some guns were confiscated in a country where guns are illegal.... Please. I hope to see all your comments again when a drug den is raided, and drugs are confiscated...
George, George, George, I too have to work hard for what I have... However, I still recognise that life is more important than objects regardless of how hard I've had to work to get them. I know what is a necessity in my life and what isn’t. It’s the adoption of certain attitudes that has lead the world to value things more than people, and very much to blame for the societies we ALL live in.
So George, how do you secure your house from ‘searches and seizures’ lets say twenty police storm your home, are you going to blow their brains out? If they confiscate your gun because there’s a chance it might be illegal, are you going to shoot them? You see, this is why our police are allowed to do such things, in order that we avoid such tragedies as those seen by countries where guns are legal and handed out like sweets.
I know its time to pack up and leave when I can go to a bank to open an account and be given a gun to boot!!
There are many reasons that our society has come to what it has, but please don’t think that American influence isn’t one of them…
'This whole thing is degrading onto a name calling contest.'
Look back over the comments, the name calling started long before I got involved and all because some guns were confiscated in a country where guns are illegal.... Please. I hope to see all your comments again when a drug den is raided, and drugs are confiscated...
Posted by: Colin, Vancouver, Canada on 5:15pm Tue 23 Oct 07
This is not about guns or replicas, this about your rights and the fact that they are slipping away. Did this man break any laws? Clearly from the article he is not a threat and cooperated like a lawful citizen. The reasons given for seizure are weak and would not likely stand the test in a court of law, but I suspect the authorities bet on the fact that most people don’t have the money to fight them. Britons make fun of Americans, but at least the Americans take their rights very strongly and resist attempts to limit them. Freedom and rights are hard won and easily lost. Vigilance against abuse by the state even from the best intentions is always required. Britain is sliding down a slope it may not recover from. Benevolent oppression is still oppression. If you don’t stand up for other’s rights, who will stand up for you when they come for yours?
This is not about guns or replicas, this about your rights and the fact that they are slipping away. Did this man break any laws? Clearly from the article he is not a threat and cooperated like a lawful citizen. The reasons given for seizure are weak and would not likely stand the test in a court of law, but I suspect the authorities bet on the fact that most people don’t have the money to fight them. Britons make fun of Americans, but at least the Americans take their rights very strongly and resist attempts to limit them. Freedom and rights are hard won and easily lost. Vigilance against abuse by the state even from the best intentions is always required. Britain is sliding down a slope it may not recover from. Benevolent oppression is still oppression. If you don’t stand up for other’s rights, who will stand up for you when they come for yours?
Posted by: Bloke across the Pond, Florida USA on 5:18pm Tue 23 Oct 07
"Plus, I would rather give everything away than attempt to take what doesn't belong to me..."
Oh the sorrow - how many British and Americans died in the 20th century to protect your country from a police state.
YOU just did. When armed police can come into your house (raid) and take away toy guns for what MIGHT be done...
Whats next, your steak knives, cricket bats, wait I know, your wankers because they can become hard and MIGHT hurt someone. Hell, its obvious that you aren't using those parts anyways.
"Plus, I would rather give everything away than attempt to take what doesn't belong to me..."
Oh the sorrow - how many British and Americans died in the 20th century to protect your country from a police state.
YOU just did. When armed police can come into your house (raid) and take away toy guns for what MIGHT be done...
Whats next, your steak knives, cricket bats, wait I know, your wankers because they can become hard and MIGHT hurt someone. Hell, its obvious that you aren't using those parts anyways.
Posted by: johny appleseed, USA on 5:44pm Tue 23 Oct 07
Hey brits,
would you all mind if we shipped our liberals and demoncraps over to you?
They should feel right at home over there where your criminals have more right to your property than you do....
Hey brits,
would you all mind if we shipped our liberals and demoncraps over to you?
They should feel right at home over there where your criminals have more right to your property than you do....
Posted by: Mongo, USA on 7:47pm Tue 23 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Collector[/bold] wrote:
I just don't understand why armed police would raid the home of this person and seize a collection. For 20 years this individual was able to legally purchase (assumption) his collection. Then suddenly, arbitrarily this freedom is taken away from him. I have to hope this will never happen to me without cause. I have a similar collection, but I own no fakes. Truth is, regardless of what one ownes, you really can't fight the authorities. I will just have to hope Canada will respect my ownership and not become what it seems much of Europe has become in respect to firearms. I have to admit, that it seems unlikely I will die an old man with my guns still in my possession. It appears most governments have been steadily barring it's civillian populace from firearms ownership. It will probably only ever get worse for all of us. [/quote] [quote]Truth is, regardless of what one ownes, [bold]you really can't fight the authorities.[/bold] I will just have to hope Canada will respect my ownership and not become what it seems much of Europe has become in respect to firearms. [/quote]
You had best give up your weapons now, with your attitude. Here is a quote from Samuel Adams, in a speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
So much for the authorities...
Collector wrote:
I just don't understand why armed police would raid the home of this person and seize a collection. For 20 years this individual was able to legally purchase (assumption) his collection. Then suddenly, arbitrarily this freedom is taken away from him. I have to hope this will never happen to me without cause. I have a similar collection, but I own no fakes. Truth is, regardless of what one ownes, you really can't fight the authorities. I will just have to hope Canada will respect my ownership and not become what it seems much of Europe has become in respect to firearms. I have to admit, that it seems unlikely I will die an old man with my guns still in my possession. It appears most governments have been steadily barring it's civillian populace from firearms ownership. It will probably only ever get worse for all of us.
Truth is, regardless of what one ownes, you really can't fight the authorities. I will just have to hope Canada will respect my ownership and not become what it seems much of Europe has become in respect to firearms.
You had best give up your weapons now, with your attitude. Here is a quote from Samuel Adams, in a speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
So much for the authorities...
Posted by: Keith, USA on 8:27pm Tue 23 Oct 07
[quote][bold]johny appleseed[/bold] wrote:
Hey brits, would you all mind if we shipped our liberals and demoncraps over to you? They should feel right at home over there where your criminals have more right to your property than you do....[/quote] That's not a bad idea at all! They can have our liberals and demoncraps while England can give us their conservatives and anyone else who wants to have some real freedoms. It seems like a fair trade to me.
johny appleseed wrote:
Hey brits, would you all mind if we shipped our liberals and demoncraps over to you? They should feel right at home over there where your criminals have more right to your property than you do....
That's not a bad idea at all! They can have our liberals and demoncraps while England can give us their conservatives and anyone else who wants to have some real freedoms. It seems like a fair trade to me.
Posted by: BIG BROTHER, Airstrip One on 7:18am Wed 24 Oct 07
Repeat after me, Britain.
[bold]WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH[/bold]
Repeat after me, Britain.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Posted by: Steve, U.S.A. on 1:34pm Wed 24 Oct 07
I wonder why it is that people in other nations equate handguns with violence? I have carried a handgun on my side for five years, and I've never had the inclination to randomly commit violent acts. It has become a comfort knowing that I am trusted as a citizen to protect my own life and the lives of my family.
I think it is SHAMEFUL that there are people out there who actually BRAG ABOUT the superiority of their society in not needing guns. HOW ARROGANT!
Especially since it is so shameful that you insist that another human being (police officer)risk their lives to protect something you are unwilling to protect yourself.
You Brits have sadly given up the CIVIL RIGHT to protect yourself.....FOR ALL TIME! Let's see if your superior society will ever see fit to return it to you. Unfotunately, you have willingly given up the means to fight for any other right they now want to remove. Of course now, you no longer have the MEANS to fight, not to mention the WILL to do so.
And you're proud of that?
I wonder why it is that people in other nations equate handguns with violence? I have carried a handgun on my side for five years, and I've never had the inclination to randomly commit violent acts. It has become a comfort knowing that I am trusted as a citizen to protect my own life and the lives of my family.
I think it is SHAMEFUL that there are people out there who actually BRAG ABOUT the superiority of their society in not needing guns. HOW ARROGANT!
Especially since it is so shameful that you insist that another human being (police officer)risk their lives to protect something you are unwilling to protect yourself.
You Brits have sadly given up the CIVIL RIGHT to protect yourself.....FOR ALL TIME! Let's see if your superior society will ever see fit to return it to you. Unfotunately, you have willingly given up the means to fight for any other right they now want to remove. Of course now, you no longer have the MEANS to fight, not to mention the WILL to do so.
And you're proud of that?
Posted by: David, Sunny Florida, USA on 2:22pm Wed 24 Oct 07
A man that takes your gold chain today, will take your daughter's gold chain tomorrow, or your Mother's gold chain. He'll go on, taking whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He'll take lives, he'll brutalize innocents, and he'll do so with pleasure. He'll do so until he's stopped.
If it takes a bullet to the brainpan to stop him from hurting my daughter, or anyone I kow, the so be it. The wages of sin is death. This is my justification for being prepared to defend myself, and any of my loved ones, with whatever force I can muster.
What's your justification for not doing so?
A man that takes your gold chain today, will take your daughter's gold chain tomorrow, or your Mother's gold chain. He'll go on, taking whatever he wants, whenever he wants. He'll take lives, he'll brutalize innocents, and he'll do so with pleasure. He'll do so until he's stopped.
If it takes a bullet to the brainpan to stop him from hurting my daughter, or anyone I kow, the so be it. The wages of sin is death. This is my justification for being prepared to defend myself, and any of my loved ones, with whatever force I can muster.
What's your justification for not doing so?
Posted by: Mark, Missouri, USA on 3:30pm Wed 24 Oct 07
In Missouri USA we are a "free people", who's rights began in English Common law that you all invented. The difference here is that we live what we believe. I am free to carry a loaded firearm on my person or in my vehicle at will, have as many guns as I want to collect, and use them to defend myself against intruders, robbers, car-jackers and those that would do me harm without fear of prosecution.
What a wonderful place I live! Too bad for you! [bold]I won't be visiting there for certain![/bold]
In Missouri USA we are a "free people", who's rights began in English Common law that you all invented. The difference here is that we live what we believe. I am free to carry a loaded firearm on my person or in my vehicle at will, have as many guns as I want to collect, and use them to defend myself against intruders, robbers, car-jackers and those that would do me harm without fear of prosecution.
What a wonderful place I live! Too bad for you!
I won't be visiting there for certain!
Posted by: Great Britain, ENGLAND on 3:38pm Wed 24 Oct 07
[bold]"I think it is SHAMEFUL that there are people out there who actually BRAG ABOUT the superiority of their society in not needing guns. HOW ARROGANT!"[/bold] Funny you should say that since quite a few of the USA comments here are alluding to the fact that the USA is superior to Britain. In fact, in one of your earlier comments, didn't you call us 'pathetic'???
But I think what is both SHAMEFUL and ARROGANT is trying to justify carrying and using a weapon that is DESIGNED to KILL and cause BLOODSHED..
In this country, people who go round shooting others go to PRISON. Carrying a gun is not seen as the norm.
Its not about the superiority of our Society.. Not at all.. Its about the individual’s understanding of what is acceptable and what isn't.... There are two types of people in British Society, those that carry guns and those that don't. There is uproar here at the moment about the ones who choose to carry them because they are stripping people of lives based on the fact that the gun carrier thinks they deserve it.. This can be because someone asks you to put a cigarette out, looked at you the wrong way, or stepped on your foot…
[bold]“You Brits have sadly given up the CIVIL RIGHT to protect yourself...FOR ALL TIME! Let's see if your superior society will ever see fit to return it to you.”[/bold] Worry about your own society Steve, it needs it. Leave the worrying about ours to us.
The arrogance also lies in all the comments calling Brits names… You are all logging on to a news website for a different country just to throw insults because we don’t do things as you do… Odd that. I wouldn’t mind if you lived in a perfect society, but you don’t. Nowhere near. As someone above mentioned. People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones..
David...
"The wagers of sin is death"
David, you need to pick up a bible and find out what that really means.... It quite seems that you are suggesting that you are not a sinner.. NEWSFLASH. You are.
"I think it is SHAMEFUL that there are people out there who actually BRAG ABOUT the superiority of their society in not needing guns. HOW ARROGANT!" Funny you should say that since quite a few of the USA comments here are alluding to the fact that the USA is superior to Britain. In fact, in one of your earlier comments, didn't you call us 'pathetic'???
But I think what is both SHAMEFUL and ARROGANT is trying to justify carrying and using a weapon that is DESIGNED to KILL and cause BLOODSHED..
In this country, people who go round shooting others go to PRISON. Carrying a gun is not seen as the norm.
Its not about the superiority of our Society.. Not at all.. Its about the individual’s understanding of what is acceptable and what isn't.... There are two types of people in British Society, those that carry guns and those that don't. There is uproar here at the moment about the ones who choose to carry them because they are stripping people of lives based on the fact that the gun carrier thinks they deserve it.. This can be because someone asks you to put a cigarette out, looked at you the wrong way, or stepped on your foot…
“You Brits have sadly given up the CIVIL RIGHT to protect yourself...FOR ALL TIME! Let's see if your superior society will ever see fit to return it to you.” Worry about your own society Steve, it needs it. Leave the worrying about ours to us.
The arrogance also lies in all the comments calling Brits names… You are all logging on to a news website for a different country just to throw insults because we don’t do things as you do… Odd that. I wouldn’t mind if you lived in a perfect society, but you don’t. Nowhere near. As someone above mentioned. People who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones..
David...
"The wagers of sin is death"
David, you need to pick up a bible and find out what that really means.... It quite seems that you are suggesting that you are not a sinner.. NEWSFLASH. You are.
Posted by: Steve, U.S.A. on 4:45pm Wed 24 Oct 07
First let me apologize for seeming to mock your society. I, as an American, am thankful for having your country as close allies. I would never think of the British people in a derogatory manner, so if I seem to come off as insulting, I'm truly sorry.
But, having said that, I do think there's a bit of arrogance in the attitude that you are morally better by not needing guns. I'm sure there are more than a few people in your country who's lives could have been saved by having had the capability of defending themselves.
The term pathetic I used refers to the belief that by passing a law, you somehow make everyone safer. How naive. I guess all the criminals will just stop being criminals because it's against the law.
I guess you'll just have to rely on others to protect you from now on because you have given up the right to do it yourself.
First let me apologize for seeming to mock your society. I, as an American, am thankful for having your country as close allies. I would never think of the British people in a derogatory manner, so if I seem to come off as insulting, I'm truly sorry.
But, having said that, I do think there's a bit of arrogance in the attitude that you are morally better by not needing guns. I'm sure there are more than a few people in your country who's lives could have been saved by having had the capability of defending themselves.
The term pathetic I used refers to the belief that by passing a law, you somehow make everyone safer. How naive. I guess all the criminals will just stop being criminals because it's against the law.
I guess you'll just have to rely on others to protect you from now on because you have given up the right to do it yourself.
Posted by: Great Britain, England on 7:04pm Wed 24 Oct 07
[bold]bold[/bold] Steve, I am in no way suggesting that we are morally superior because we do not carry guns. If any of my comments lead you to believe that then I too apologise. That is not the intention; I am simply defending my country against a barrage of insults merely because we do not have the same laws as you do in America.
[bold]“I’m sure there are more than a few people in your country who’s lives could have been saved by having had the capability of defending themselves.”[/bold] I’m quite sure you are right too, however I know that I am right in saying that they wouldn’t need to if there were no guns in the hands of those capable of using it for gain or retribution or just plain murder. Plus the fact that there have been many cases where one person has shot someone dead, his friend then goes and shoots the shooter, then his friend, and his, and so on and so on, all under the proviso of somehow being 'disrespected.' So many lives gone (untold innocents too) because people have in their hands a gun. All of that could have been avoided if no one shot anyone in the first place. Lives are being lost on the streets of Britain because people believe they have the right to take a life because they have a gun and that makes them both superior and invincible. I’m not saying that is the case in America, I’m talking about here. I understand that in America guns have been legal for a very very long time. That’s not the case here. They are relatively new to us and they are causing untold grief to mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children and friends. Not acceptable. Our laws state that guns are illegal. That’s it. That does not make us superior and nor does it make us inferior. Just different. We do not believe that by passing a law everyone will be safe. That [italic]would[/italic] be rather naďve. However, laws are there to protect people, just as, I assume they are in America. Do you suggest we do away with laws because they do not work? Are you suggesting once the laws have gone, we should arm everyone and let them do it themselves? It would never work. [bold]Relying on others to protect us.[/bold] Hmm. That is what the police force was intended for, is it not? Otherwise, what on earth is the point of having a police force? British people [italic]will[/italic] defend themselves to the best of their ability and within the law, otherwise, we run the risk of falling foul of it and ending up in prison ourselves. But let us also not forget that one of the very first laws on EARTH was ‘thou shall not kill.’
As I said the moral superiority comes into play when people call us names because our police force are doing their jobs. Guns are illegal, therefore they will try to do their job in attempting to take them off the streets. We have never given up the right to protect ourselves, we still can and we still do, but we stay within the law, ‘reasonable force’. Guns have never been legal here. The way you are talking its as if they were at one point and we have ‘given up’ that right. Not the case at all. The problems that guns cause us (Britain) today gives credence to the fact that they are illegal and should/will remain so.
Steve, its time for me to bow out, I’ve explained/defended as much as I can. I can only suggest that we should agree to disagree, you are not my enemy and I don’t wish to make you one. I hope you have a pleasant evening/day (not sure what time it is where you are) and I sincerely hope that you never ever need to use your gun… Take care.
Steve, I am in no way suggesting that we are morally superior because we do not carry guns. If any of my comments lead you to believe that then I too apologise. That is not the intention; I am simply defending my country against a barrage of insults merely because we do not have the same laws as you do in America.
“I’m sure there are more than a few people in your country who’s lives could have been saved by having had the capability of defending themselves.” I’m quite sure you are right too, however I know that I am right in saying that they wouldn’t need to if there were no guns in the hands of those capable of using it for gain or retribution or just plain murder. Plus the fact that there have been many cases where one person has shot someone dead, his friend then goes and shoots the shooter, then his friend, and his, and so on and so on, all under the proviso of somehow being 'disrespected.' So many lives gone (untold innocents too) because people have in their hands a gun. All of that could have been avoided if no one shot anyone in the first place. Lives are being lost on the streets of Britain because people believe they have the right to take a life because they have a gun and that makes them both superior and invincible. I’m not saying that is the case in America, I’m talking about here. I understand that in America guns have been legal for a very very long time. That’s not the case here. They are relatively new to us and they are causing untold grief to mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children and friends. Not acceptable. Our laws state that guns are illegal. That’s it. That does not make us superior and nor does it make us inferior. Just different. We do not believe that by passing a law everyone will be safe. That
would be rather naďve. However, laws are there to protect people, just as, I assume they are in America. Do you suggest we do away with laws because they do not work? Are you suggesting once the laws have gone, we should arm everyone and let them do it themselves? It would never work.
Relying on others to protect us. Hmm. That is what the police force was intended for, is it not? Otherwise, what on earth is the point of having a police force? British people
will defend themselves to the best of their ability and within the law, otherwise, we run the risk of falling foul of it and ending up in prison ourselves. But let us also not forget that one of the very first laws on EARTH was ‘thou shall not kill.’
As I said the moral superiority comes into play when people call us names because our police force are doing their jobs. Guns are illegal, therefore they will try to do their job in attempting to take them off the streets. We have never given up the right to protect ourselves, we still can and we still do, but we stay within the law, ‘reasonable force’. Guns have never been legal here. The way you are talking its as if they were at one point and we have ‘given up’ that right. Not the case at all. The problems that guns cause us (Britain) today gives credence to the fact that they are illegal and should/will remain so.
Steve, its time for me to bow out, I’ve explained/defended as much as I can. I can only suggest that we should agree to disagree, you are not my enemy and I don’t wish to make you one. I hope you have a pleasant evening/day (not sure what time it is where you are) and I sincerely hope that you never ever need to use your gun… Take care.
Posted by: Steve, U.S.A. on 10:43pm Wed 24 Oct 07
Well said. Mutual regards for a pleasant morning/afternoon/ev
ening.
Well said. Mutual regards for a pleasant morning/afternoon/ev
ening.
Posted by: TCK on 12:01am Thu 25 Oct 07
[quote]What precisely are we giving away? "The right to bear arms?" That [italic]never existed in this country dear[/italic] , [bold]we've never been that intent on violence[/bold] ..[/quote]
Speaking as a 4th generation Irish-American, I'd like to kindly inform you go go f*** yourself. Then, I'd suggest re-reading you're history books, starting with the Blackstone Commentaries.
To the above; the police WERE NEVER intended to replace the civic duty everyone man has to protect himself, his family, and his community, theres a reason the police were originally unarmed. Furthermore, both in the US, and in Britain, the government has abdicted itself from all responsibly for protecting the individual, what gives them the right to say you can't protect yourself?
What precisely are we giving away? "The right to bear arms?" That never existed in this country dear , we've never been that intent on violence ..
Speaking as a 4th generation Irish-American, I'd like to kindly inform you go go f*** yourself. Then, I'd suggest re-reading you're history books, starting with the Blackstone Commentaries.
To the above; the police WERE NEVER intended to replace the civic duty everyone man has to protect himself, his family, and his community, theres a reason the police were originally unarmed. Furthermore, both in the US, and in Britain, the government has abdicted itself from all responsibly for protecting the individual, what gives them the right to say you can't protect yourself?
Posted by: Bloke across the Pond, Florida USA on 5:19am Thu 25 Oct 07
[quote][italic][bold]“I’m sure there are more than a few people in your country who’s lives could have been saved by having had the capability of defending themselves.” I’m quite sure you are right too, however I know that I am right in saying that they wouldn’t need to if there were no guns in the hands of those capable of using it for gain or retribution or just plain murder.[/bold] [/italic] [/quote]
And just how do you plan to take all the guns away from the criminals? We know how you are doing it to the honest citizens. What is the great master plan to rid the British Isles of firearms and to prevent their re-introduction into your country? Do you think that a law that says that you can't have a gun will stop a criminal from getting one?
Here in Florida as long as you are a law abiding citizen and you have no record of felony convictions or have a restraining order against you for domestic abuse you can most probably get a firearm legally - but if you use it to commit a crime - Show the weapon and its ten years. Use the weapon and its twenty years. Hurt of kill someone with it and its twenty-five to life - if you don't get the needle.
Unless you can go back in time and PREVENT the invention of gunpowder and firearms, they will always be a part of society. Don't forget, that before guns and gunpowder, sticks and rocks were used to commit murder and mayhem long before there were even knives.
You are going about this all wrong. You need to remove the 'want' to do harm from people, not the 'how'. And until you can do that, the criminals in society will always prey on the civilized.
I can assure you that it will be a cold day in hell before my government takes my weapons from me without cause or justification. Me and about 100,000 million others.
Incidently, just for statistical purposes, police officers commit more unjustified killings than licensed gun holders in this country. So by your standards, we should de-arm our police officers and [italic][bold]just hope for the best.[/bold] [/italic]
“I’m sure there are more than a few people in your country who’s lives could have been saved by having had the capability of defending themselves.” I’m quite sure you are right too, however I know that I am right in saying that they wouldn’t need to if there were no guns in the hands of those capable of using it for gain or retribution or just plain murder.
And just how do you plan to take all the guns away from the criminals? We know how you are doing it to the honest citizens. What is the great master plan to rid the British Isles of firearms and to prevent their re-introduction into your country? Do you think that a law that says that you can't have a gun will stop a criminal from getting one?
Here in Florida as long as you are a law abiding citizen and you have no record of felony convictions or have a restraining order against you for domestic abuse you can most probably get a firearm legally - but if you use it to commit a crime - Show the weapon and its ten years. Use the weapon and its twenty years. Hurt of kill someone with it and its twenty-five to life - if you don't get the needle.
Unless you can go back in time and PREVENT the invention of gunpowder and firearms, they will always be a part of society. Don't forget, that before guns and gunpowder, sticks and rocks were used to commit murder and mayhem long before there were even knives.
You are going about this all wrong. You need to remove the 'want' to do harm from people, not the 'how'. And until you can do that, the criminals in society will always prey on the civilized.
I can assure you that it will be a cold day in hell before my government takes my weapons from me without cause or justification. Me and about 100,000 million others.
Incidently, just for statistical purposes, police officers commit more unjustified killings than licensed gun holders in this country. So by your standards, we should de-arm our police officers and
just hope for the best. Posted by: A Passer By, London on 11:05am Thu 25 Oct 07
[quote][bold]TCK[/bold] wrote:
[quote]What precisely are we giving away? "The right to bear arms?" That [italic]never existed in this country dear[/italic] , [bold]we've never been that intent on violence[/bold] ..[/quote] Speaking as a 4th generation Irish-American, I'd like to kindly inform you go go f*** yourself. Then, I'd suggest re-reading you're history books, starting with the Blackstone Commentaries. To the above; the police WERE NEVER intended to replace the civic duty everyone man has to protect himself, his family, and his community, theres a reason the police were originally unarmed. Furthermore, both in the US, and in Britain, the government has abdicted itself from all responsibly for protecting the individual, what gives them the right to say you can't protect yourself?[/quote] And I suggest you acquire some manners and forgo the foul mouthed insults....
The Blackstone Commentaries.. Do you mean? "The influential 18th century treatise on the common law of England by Sir William Blackstone.."
It may surprise you to know that I am not over 400 years old...
I trust you are not suggesting that I am to be held responsible for the decisions and actions of the British forefathers, because if you are, boy do [italic]you[/italic] have some amendments to make too.... My comment referred to now, our time.
And who said anything about the Police replacing civic duty?? No one on this site has.. The fact remains, even on your police cars it states 'to protect and serve.' That is their job despite our 'civil duties.' Most of our police are still unarmed, there are only one section (SO19) who are our armed response...
No one has told us we can't protect ourselves, as Great Britain said, we can and we do, within OUR law, and within reasonable force. Our law does not permit us to blow someone's brains out because they try to steal our car...
TCK wrote:
What precisely are we giving away? "The right to bear arms?" That never existed in this country dear , we've never been that intent on violence ..
Speaking as a 4th generation Irish-American, I'd like to kindly inform you go go f*** yourself. Then, I'd suggest re-reading you're history books, starting with the Blackstone Commentaries. To the above; the police WERE NEVER intended to replace the civic duty everyone man has to protect himself, his family, and his community, theres a reason the police were originally unarmed. Furthermore, both in the US, and in Britain, the government has abdicted itself from all responsibly for protecting the individual, what gives them the right to say you can't protect yourself?
And I suggest you acquire some manners and forgo the foul mouthed insults....
The Blackstone Commentaries.. Do you mean? "The influential 18th century treatise on the common law of England by Sir William Blackstone.."
It may surprise you to know that I am not over 400 years old...
I trust you are not suggesting that I am to be held responsible for the decisions and actions of the British forefathers, because if you are, boy do
you have some amendments to make too.... My comment referred to now, our time.
And who said anything about the Police replacing civic duty?? No one on this site has.. The fact remains, even on your police cars it states 'to protect and serve.' That is their job despite our 'civil duties.' Most of our police are still unarmed, there are only one section (SO19) who are our armed response...
No one has told us we can't protect ourselves, as Great Britain said, we can and we do, within OUR law, and within reasonable force. Our law does not permit us to blow someone's brains out because they try to steal our car...
Posted by: BarnacleBob, Sadly, England on 1:46pm Thu 25 Oct 07
This is getting beyond a joke, I'm scared, genuinely scared. For my children, what kind of country am I leaving them in......
This is getting beyond a joke, I'm scared, genuinely scared. For my children, what kind of country am I leaving them in......
Posted by: another collector, England on 3:07pm Thu 25 Oct 07
What a load of mis-informed people there are, its not the police who determine if a replica can be converted or not, there are tests carried out by the home office to confirm this.
Those blank firing guns have hardened carbide steel cast into the barrel, the rest of it is made from weak metal, any attempts to covert it to use live rounds will result in it exploding.
We never had the right to bear arms? Someone needs to check things before posting !!, section 7 of our 1689 Bill of Rights gives us the "RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR DEFENCE", this is a statute law and NO government can take it away, therefore it still exists today, we just can't arm ourselves with firearms.
What a load of mis-informed people there are, its not the police who determine if a replica can be converted or not, there are tests carried out by the home office to confirm this.
Those blank firing guns have hardened carbide steel cast into the barrel, the rest of it is made from weak metal, any attempts to covert it to use live rounds will result in it exploding.
We never had the right to bear arms? Someone needs to check things before posting !!, section 7 of our 1689 Bill of Rights gives us the "RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR DEFENCE", this is a statute law and NO government can take it away, therefore it still exists today, we just can't arm ourselves with firearms.
Posted by: AntiGunToo, London on 3:14pm Thu 25 Oct 07
"The Met said in a statement that "although there was no concern that the owner of the collection posed a threat himself, [bold]the firearms that had been identified by officers as susceptible to conversion[/bold] were retained as a precautionary measure" and will be destroyed."
We never had the right to bear arms? Someone needs to check things before posting !!, section 7 of our 1689 Bill of Rights gives us the "RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR DEFENCE", this is a statute law and NO government can take it away, therefore it still exists today, we just can't arm ourselves with firearms.
They don't really need to check that before posting, this story relates to guns, therefore I understood the posts to be about guns.. Plus the fact that when you talk about 'arms' I relate that to firearms.. So are you saying it ok to arm ourselves with knives then? For defence of course!
Absolute madness.
"The Met said in a statement that "although there was no concern that the owner of the collection posed a threat himself,
the firearms that had been identified by officers as susceptible to conversion were retained as a precautionary measure" and will be destroyed."
We never had the right to bear arms? Someone needs to check things before posting !!, section 7 of our 1689 Bill of Rights gives us the "RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOR DEFENCE", this is a statute law and NO government can take it away, therefore it still exists today, we just can't arm ourselves with firearms.
They don't really need to check that before posting, this story relates to guns, therefore I understood the posts to be about guns.. Plus the fact that when you talk about 'arms' I relate that to firearms.. So are you saying it ok to arm ourselves with knives then? For defence of course!
Absolute madness.
Posted by: another collector, England on 3:26pm Thu 25 Oct 07
Great Britain said [quote]Guns have never been legal here[/quote]
Sorry but where did this come from? Guns are still legal here but you need a section 1 FAC to hold one. Pistols are illegal unless you hold a section 5 FAC issued by the Home Office and these are normally as a PPW (Personal protect weapon) which means they are being carried around on the streets, rumour has it that Robin Cooke (the TV reporter)has one.
Great Britain said
Guns have never been legal here
Sorry but where did this come from? Guns are still legal here but you need a section 1 FAC to hold one. Pistols are illegal unless you hold a section 5 FAC issued by the Home Office and these are normally as a PPW (Personal protect weapon) which means they are being carried around on the streets, rumour has it that Robin Cooke (the TV reporter)has one.
Posted by: AntiGunToo, London on 3:31pm Thu 25 Oct 07
Thought I would look up re the 1689 Bill of Rights and all I could find was a "Report of the ACT Bill of Rights Consultative Comittee"
and it said "On the other hand, the Bill of Rights also contains various outmoded and discrimatory provisions. It mirrors the anti-Catholic bias of its era, for example confining the right to bear arms for defence to Protestants."
"Another collector" as you appear to know the 1689 Bill of rights so well, is that correct?
Obviously if it is true, then that bill does not apply to everyone in Great Britain, correct? So then the person you advised to do some research before they posted, possibly didn't need to after all?
Thought I would look up re the 1689 Bill of Rights and all I could find was a "Report of the ACT Bill of Rights Consultative Comittee"
and it said "On the other hand, the Bill of Rights also contains various outmoded and discrimatory provisions. It mirrors the anti-Catholic bias of its era, for example confining the right to bear arms for defence to Protestants."
"Another collector" as you appear to know the 1689 Bill of rights so well, is that correct?
Obviously if it is true, then that bill does not apply to everyone in Great Britain, correct? So then the person you advised to do some research before they posted, possibly didn't need to after all?
Posted by: AntiGunToo, London on 3:45pm Thu 25 Oct 07
[quote][bold]another collector[/bold] wrote:
Great Britain said [quote]Guns have never been legal here[/quote] Sorry but where did this come from? Guns are still legal here but you need a section 1 FAC to hold one. Pistols are illegal unless you hold a section 5 FAC issued by the Home Office and these are normally as a PPW (Personal protect weapon) which means they are being carried around on the streets, rumour has it that Robin Cooke (the TV reporter)has one. [/quote] You are quite correct. Still, the majority of people in GB do not hold these, correct?
This is very interesting, found the following also:
"The right to keep and bear arms had originated in England during the reign of Henry II with the 1181 Assize of Arms, and developed as part of Common Law. [bold]These rights no longer exist in the UK, since the UK's doctrine of Parliamentary sovereignty allows the repeal of previous laws with no enshrined exceptions such as contained within a codified constitution."[/bold]
another collector wrote:
Great Britain said Guns have never been legal here
Sorry but where did this come from? Guns are still legal here but you need a section 1 FAC to hold one. Pistols are illegal unless you hold a section 5 FAC issued by the Home Office and these are normally as a PPW (Personal protect weapon) which means they are being carried around on the streets, rumour has it that Robin Cooke (the TV reporter)has one.
You are quite correct. Still, the majority of people in GB do not hold these, correct?
This is very interesting, found the following also:
"The right to keep and bear arms had originated in England during the reign of Henry II with the 1181 Assize of Arms, and developed as part of Common Law.
These rights no longer exist in the UK, since the UK's doctrine of Parliamentary sovereignty allows the repeal of previous laws with no enshrined exceptions such as contained within a codified constitution." Posted by: C.J, Wales on 4:03pm Thu 25 Oct 07
Were there any [bold]bold[/bold] [italic]italic[/italic] REAL[italic]italic[/italic] [bold]bold[/bold] weapons found in this gentleman's possession or only replicas?
There weren't any found at all, were there?
Whilst I appreciate the fact that the sale of Replica Imitation Firearms is no longer permitted in the UK since the VCRA was enforced on 1st October 2007, ownership and use of Replicas and Toy guns bought before that date is perfectly legal.
Further to that, if the gentleman has legitimate reasons for owning Replicas then the Home Office has agreed exemptions to the Law.
From what I read, this gentleman has done absolutely nothing illegal, no crime has been committed.
If the Police found REAL weapons kept illegally, or did indeed find "easily convertable" weapons in this Gentleman's possession then there may be a case to answer but, as far as I am aware, there are definately no Replica Immitation Firearms available that can possibly be converted to fire live ammunition. Plastics, ABS and zinc will not withstand the pressures generated by fired bullets. The toy gun would most probably blow up in the holder's hands.
Of the Replicas found, were any of the completely harmless and legally owned toys handed back to their owner or did the Police take the lot regardless?
I find it rather bewildering that thugs roam our streets selling drugs openly and indeed shooting each other with REAL guns seemingly at will but a collector of harmless replicas who doesn'tappear to have broken any Law at all suffers the full brunt of the Police.
What is this Country coming too?
Were there any REAL weapons found in this gentleman's possession or only replicas?
There weren't any found at all, were there?
Whilst I appreciate the fact that the sale of Replica Imitation Firearms is no longer permitted in the UK since the VCRA was enforced on 1st October 2007, ownership and use of Replicas and Toy guns bought before that date is perfectly legal.
Further to that, if the gentleman has legitimate reasons for owning Replicas then the Home Office has agreed exemptions to the Law.
From what I read, this gentleman has done absolutely nothing illegal, no crime has been committed.
If the Police found REAL weapons kept illegally, or did indeed find "easily convertable" weapons in this Gentleman's possession then there may be a case to answer but, as far as I am aware, there are definately no Replica Immitation Firearms available that can possibly be converted to fire live ammunition. Plastics, ABS and zinc will not withstand the pressures generated by fired bullets. The toy gun would most probably blow up in the holder's hands.
Of the Replicas found, were any of the completely harmless and legally owned toys handed back to their owner or did the Police take the lot regardless?
I find it rather bewildering that thugs roam our streets selling drugs openly and indeed shooting each other with REAL guns seemingly at will but a collector of harmless replicas who doesn'tappear to have broken any Law at all suffers the full brunt of the Police.
What is this Country coming too?
Posted by: Jim, lanarkshire on 5:39pm Thu 25 Oct 07
this is utter crap by the police force in question
this gentleman has done nothing wrong
he did not have them in a public place
he was not using them in a threatning manner
he was entitled to own these prior to the vcr bill coming out on the 1st october.
[bold]bold[/bold] the police are at fault here I would gladly fight this all the way
THE POLICE ARE IN THE WRONG 100%
this is utter crap by the police force in question
this gentleman has done nothing wrong
he did not have them in a public place
he was not using them in a threatning manner
he was entitled to own these prior to the vcr bill coming out on the 1st october.
the police are at fault here I would gladly fight this all the way
THE POLICE ARE IN THE WRONG 100%
Posted by: Bloke across the Pond, Florida USA on 6:06pm Thu 25 Oct 07
[quote]quoteOur law does not permit us to blow someone's brains out because they try to steal our car... [/quote]
What if they try to kill you, rape your wife or child, kidnapp your child, enter you house in the middle of the night to do bodily harm or steal from you, rob you at knife point, etc...
I have found that police are a REACTIONARY FORCE. This means that they aren't there until AFTER the crime has been commited. Who protects you when the police aren't there?
quoteOur law does not permit us to blow someone's brains out because they try to steal our car...
What if they try to kill you, rape your wife or child, kidnapp your child, enter you house in the middle of the night to do bodily harm or steal from you, rob you at knife point, etc...
I have found that police are a REACTIONARY FORCE
